Posts by Micklemus

    My copy has finally arrived and although I prefer whole shows I think there is a nice flow to this box set. It's very enjoyable as a complete package.

    The Knebworth 78 tracks sound better than any of the bootlegs I've heard. A massive improvement and I wanted to hear more. Actually the same goes for Knebworth 92.

    When it comes to the Lyceum, I can't hear the distortion that others are hearing. It sounds good to me, and it's not going to be a leap ahead of the numerous bootleg versions particularly when we've already had the likes of the TM version for years.

    The only track that sounded worse to me (but only marginally so) was Watcher of the Skies, but this boils down to the engineer's choice. Nick Davis quite obviously favours as much midrange detail as possible, whereas others have put more emphasis on bottom end and dynamics.

    I really enjoyed it, way more than I was expecting, and I hope they release more. Perhaps KBFH reels next, or perhaps they could even be brave enough to do a Floyd and authorise the release of some of the better audience and/or soundboard recordings.


    Why? Because it's really disappointing that it's so incomplete. Once again an archive release from the band that you would think was impossible to get wrong but here we are again with something less than it should have been. I guess we'll never know if it was the band's decision to limit it to so few discs or maybe that was dictated by the record company if they deemed that demand wasn't sufficiently large for a more comprehensive package. To me it falls between two stools - too much for the casual fan and not enough for the more committed. So many interesting tracks not used like the Night Ride Stagnation with the completely different ending or the Sounds of the Seventies work-in-progress Musical Box. Maybe better to have released it in smaller and more complete chunks rather than one box set. As it stands it's a real let down for me and I won't be buying.

    I've bought it, but I am with your sentiments completely. There was much more to offer from the BBC reels, and of course there are many more Genesis bootlegs crying out for official release. When fans are already buying the official releases of some really poor sounding early Pink Floyd shows, I think Genesis must know they can do more with the jewels in their closet. There is still time though.

    Pre-ordered it on vinyl and CD but I'm disappointed that it has turned out to be "Lyceum plus bits and bobs". I would have preferred complete shows. However it will be a treat to hear some added polish being brought to these gigs, and hopefully they will look at doing complete releases as I am sure the interest will be there.

    For Genesis, the first time I saw them - Wembley 1987. Not the best setlist but the delivery was faultless and the atmosphere was incredible. Similar with Knebworth 92. Unfortunately I wasn't old enough for the earlier tours.

    Phil Collins - Wembley Arena 1990(?). Very slick.

    Steve Hackett - Royal Albert Hall 2013(?). Absolutely incredible show with some wonderful guest appearances including Ray Wilson.

    I've got tickets despite seeing them perform the Lamb show two or three times previously. I think it's the right time to call it a day on this material because time waits for no man and the Lamb show requires a lot of youthful energy, particularly from "Peter".

    However, I'd still like to see another of their "Night of Genesis" shows featuring their favourite tracks. Apart from the very first time I saw them perform Selling England at the Royal Albert Hall, this was the one I enjoyed most.

    Agreed about "sustainable" being over used. Examples: Lithium, a major component in EV batteries, is a very finite resource. Lithium does not "evolve" in the same way as most other elements, so despite it's place among common elements, it isn't. It COULD run out by 2050 if not recycled with extreme rigour. A Tesla run in Wyoming, due to it's high reliance on coal power stations, would take 17.5 years to break even with a petrol carin carbon terms, taking the car's manufacture into acount.

    We're on the same page. If I allow myself to get going about this stuff, I'll be at it for hours, so I'll just add two more and try to leave it there -

    1. To the graph they love to roll out to illustrate anthropomorphic global warming, it's such a shame that they only focus on this century when we have ice core samples and other sources which allow us to go back thousands of years when opining about about climate and CO2. It is well-known to those who have studied it and those who care to look that average global temperatures have varied wildly since forever, including being much higher than now, and long before the industrial era. Same for CO2. It's politically inconvenient for these facts to be discussed. The people can be controlled; the sun can't.

    2. We have global leaders [cough], politicians [another cough] and the usual hangers on telling us how we must live while they attend their 'conferences' by private jets and limousines, and live the most opulent lifestyles with no regard for wider consequences. Quite why this hypocrisy doesn't make everyone's blood boil is beyond me (and it's not just on the environment either).

    Back to the music, as long as the focus is more towards the varied styles of the English/European bands, I think it will be a treat.

    Respectfully, I think extreme care is needed with these arguments because personal moral bias, or cognitive dissonance, or simply demarcation lines of convenience, can cloud judgement. I struggle to see how a line can be drawn between the cruise ship concept being 'bad' and regular tours with jets, trucks, hotels and mountains of equipment, being 'good'.

    In stating the above, I don't have an axe to grind either way. I agree that we should take better care of the planet, but these days the environmental discussion has been subsumed into and dictated by politics, and I am rabidly opposed to what's happening in the political arena. Anyway, that's not for a music forum.

    Back to the issue, I think the choices are:

    1. Carry on with concert cruises.

    2. If concerned with the eco/environmental issue, stop touring of any kind unless it can truly be done in a balanced, "sustainable" way (I can't stand that term), and not play at it and engage in virtue signalling like, say, Coldplay did on tour this year.

    Do You Know Do You Care, I haven't listened to that song for donkey's years but as soon as I saw your post I had it in my head. Must give it a very loud listen later.

    I Don't Care Anymore is definitely in my PC top 5 of all time and if I'm allowed to come away from the album version to Perkins Palace 1982, it's number 1. Absolutely banging tune.

    Confession - this is the first time I've heard it. I never bought the album because I was put off by the CD single of I'll Be Waiting, which to my ears was terrible, so I ruled out exploring Bankstatement further. However this is a pretty good track. It's got power and depth, and it's not drowning in 80s synth sounds.

    I like it. Thank you for posting.

    I have no intention of arguing with you. (There has been more than enough of that around these parts of late.) But your "thank you very much" is highly patronising and antagonistic when all I was doing was disagreeing with you. Equally, your suggestion I'm "only seeing what [I] want to see" in what you wrote says more about your own assumptions. I happen to think that the run of gigs at the end of the tour - especially given Collins' poor health - saw them at their peak. Yet such things are full of subjectivity and personal impression.

    I think there might be crossed wires here. Let's move on.

    I also disagree about the Earls Court (and accompanying) dates later in the year. Just to unexpectedly see them up close, indoors, was wonderful and the Newport date in particular remains possibly my favourite gig ever, by anyone. No motion-going at all perceived by this audient.

    I'm sorry but you're seeing what you want to see and not what I wrote. I was there at Knebworth and Earls Court, so I'm well versed in how they performed thank you very much. My point was not an "FU" to Genesis or fans, or to "diss' certain shows, it's was a simple point that at Knebworth you could tell they were really up for it and they performed with energy, whereas at Earls Court it was more lacklustre, like this was the end of a long tour and they were doing their duty. Look at the films of Knebworth and Earls Court, I don't see how you could fail to tell the difference. Both were very professional, but there was extra energy in one of them.

    It's no different to a comparison of Wembley 87 with the recent Hannover leak The notes are in the right places on both, but if you compare the Domino performances Hannover wins hands down.

    They're human beings, some days they perform(ed) better than others.

    As for the sets (and indeed music as well) I admire innovation and the WCD set was a big leap in terms of the technical side. It might not be viewed as such now but computing power is in a whole different league these days and this makes a huge difference. The show they put on in 1992 was very ambitious and must have cost them a ton of money.

    The 1992 focus on the effects of their Jumbotrons looks quite "cheap" today, back the it was a "wow" when the picture of all three screens became one etc.

    Other than that the light show wasn't as exciting as on previous tours. That changed in 2021 - their most recent stage show was their best for a long long time

    Exactly. It's easy to critique with the benefit of hindsight but at the time this was a big change, and the full size version of that set in big open-air venue worked really well.

    Credit to the band also for continuously innovating with their show. They could have done IT v2 with even more varilites but they took a different course.

    OMG I can't believe that was 30 years ago! I remember it well. We had a good spot to the right and forward of the mixing tower, about 30 yards back from the stage, and the crowd was raucous. When the band came on the noise was incredible down there in the bowl,, like this was a grand homecoming after their goodnight at Wembley 5 years before (which of course was exactly what it was). Also the stage show, with the moving jumbotrons and light rigs, was an absolute jaw-dropper at the time.

    It was a really energetic performance, far better than the Earls Court going-through-the-motions shows later in the year, but although I enjoyed the old medley, I remember being disappointed that the "old stuff" was left there, plus no Los Endos after the drum duet. Too much emphasis on WCD and IT.

    Once again an odd choice of support act. At Wembley in 87 it was Paul Young, at Knebworth in 92 it was Lisa Stansfield. There were a good number of "WTF" glances going around the crowd but unlike 87 there was no bottle throwing.

    My other abiding memory was not getting home until nearly 4 am because the car park jammed up.

    It was a really good show, miles better than Earls Court as far as I was concerned but not quite as exciting as Wembley because of the setlist. Then again, I really needed to have been born 10 or 15 years earlier so I could have been there on the proggier tours.

    For years I thought FYFM on 3SL put the SO version to shame, same with Afterglow. I guess I got carried away by Phil's newly found vocal power but in time I came to realize that delivering a song is also about mood and nuances, not necessarily power. The perks of aging, I guess but again, it's a mood thing, I can listen to the two versions equally, depending on the moment.

    About Misunderstanding, one of the songs I started skipping, I agree that it is incredibly overrated, same with Abacab but I understand why the former is always played live.

    FYFM on Seconds Out???? I get your point though, and I agree. It's the light and shade, power and delicacy that you get from those earlier songs and performances which appeals to me. In the 80s (and evident on 3SL) it was "BAM, we're here, we're good at what we do, take that, and that...and that" whereas in 77 it was more about the range and getting the most atmosphere from each piece. I think much of this was down to Steve Hackett still being in the band. Daryl might be technically more proficient but Steve had atmosphere in spades. Also, Tony was still using the Mellotron, which might have been a nightmare to maintain but the sounds it produced were perfect for classic Genesis and never matched by his synth efforts in later years. And although Hugh Padgham's production, with its very immediate sound, was perfect for the 'newer' numbers on 3SL, David Hentschel captured the feel of the bands 'older' numbers proportionately better on Seconds Out (despite SH being too low in the mix in places). In my view of course.

    I've said enough!

    Don't misunderstand me, I think Me and Sarah Jane is a reasonable track. In the studio. On stage, I think it was let down by Chester's drumming (sorry Chester) which lacked the subtlety and feel that the song needed. Phil is a bit too OTT as well.

    When I saw Genesis at Twickenham in 2007 Follow You Follow Me was touching and brought a tear to my eye. The 3SL version feels like filler to me.

    Misunderstanding - we'll have to agree to differ there! I agree that Daryl helps make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. However, I think Chester (again) lacks subtlety here, the bit at the end is toe curlingly awful and, well, the song is overrated generally. But life would be boring if we all agreed on everything.

    I loved Fabrizio's summation. I can appreciate a good chunk of the band's simpler, more direct stuff (except that DREADFUL album with Stations in the title) and I can also appreciate the evolution of their live sound, particularly the 81 and 82 tours funnily enough, where they totally rocked. Also, against the grain here, I quite like the Abacab album and I think Phil's voice peaked at this time too.. However, the band I fell in love with was the band that went for ambitious arrangements, moods and complexity (but without disappearing up their own backsides like Yes etc) and that's why Seconds Out wins for me. I'm not a 3SL hater, it has some great live tracks and I listened to it only a couple of weeks ago, but Seconds Out is one of the top five that I will always enjoy because, for me, good progressive rock is music which takes you on a journey, and in this respect it beats 3SL hands down.

    Bought it and played it to exhaustion, in time I began skipping a couple of songs but I loved the energy of the album. To me it isn't necessarily better or worse than SO, they just are very different, it's more of a mood thing. 3SL was summertime, packed with energy and joie de vivre, SO was more wintertime, intimate and wistful. I think Phil never got enough credit for the kind of singer he became, something that became evident evident on 3SL.

    So well put. I agree.