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I've got tickets despite seeing them perform the Lamb show two or three times previously. I think it's the right time to call it a day on this material because time waits for no man and the Lamb show requires a lot of youthful energy, particularly from "Peter".
However, I'd still like to see another of their "Night of Genesis" shows featuring their favourite tracks. Apart from the very first time I saw them perform Selling England at the Royal Albert Hall, this was the one I enjoyed most.
Agreed about "sustainable" being over used. Examples: Lithium, a major component in EV batteries, is a very finite resource. Lithium does not "evolve" in the same way as most other elements, so despite it's place among common elements, it isn't. It COULD run out by 2050 if not recycled with extreme rigour. A Tesla run in Wyoming, due to it's high reliance on coal power stations, would take 17.5 years to break even with a petrol carin carbon terms, taking the car's manufacture into acount.
We're on the same page. If I allow myself to get going about this stuff, I'll be at it for hours, so I'll just add two more and try to leave it there -
1. To the graph they love to roll out to illustrate anthropomorphic global warming, it's such a shame that they only focus on this century when we have ice core samples and other sources which allow us to go back thousands of years when opining about about climate and CO2. It is well-known to those who have studied it and those who care to look that average global temperatures have varied wildly since forever, including being much higher than now, and long before the industrial era. Same for CO2. It's politically inconvenient for these facts to be discussed. The people can be controlled; the sun can't.
2. We have global leaders [cough], politicians [another cough] and the usual hangers on telling us how we must live while they attend their 'conferences' by private jets and limousines, and live the most opulent lifestyles with no regard for wider consequences. Quite why this hypocrisy doesn't make everyone's blood boil is beyond me (and it's not just on the environment either).
Back to the music, as long as the focus is more towards the varied styles of the English/European bands, I think it will be a treat.
Respectfully, I think extreme care is needed with these arguments because personal moral bias, or cognitive dissonance, or simply demarcation lines of convenience, can cloud judgement. I struggle to see how a line can be drawn between the cruise ship concept being 'bad' and regular tours with jets, trucks, hotels and mountains of equipment, being 'good'.
In stating the above, I don't have an axe to grind either way. I agree that we should take better care of the planet, but these days the environmental discussion has been subsumed into and dictated by politics, and I am rabidly opposed to what's happening in the political arena. Anyway, that's not for a music forum.
Back to the issue, I think the choices are:
1. Carry on with concert cruises.
2. If concerned with the eco/environmental issue, stop touring of any kind unless it can truly be done in a balanced, "sustainable" way (I can't stand that term), and not play at it and engage in virtue signalling like, say, Coldplay did on tour this year.
Wasn't there a guy back in Krissy's forum? He or another one also told of gigs they attended before Trespass came out.
Would be great if someone could dig out those posts from the archives
Do You Know Do You Care, I haven't listened to that song for donkey's years but as soon as I saw your post I had it in my head. Must give it a very loud listen later.
I Don't Care Anymore is definitely in my PC top 5 of all time and if I'm allowed to come away from the album version to Perkins Palace 1982, it's number 1. Absolutely banging tune.
Confession - this is the first time I've heard it. I never bought the album because I was put off by the CD single of I'll Be Waiting, which to my ears was terrible, so I ruled out exploring Bankstatement further. However this is a pretty good track. It's got power and depth, and it's not drowning in 80s synth sounds.
I like it. Thank you for posting.
Thank you
LOVED that.
Excellent video. Lyrically it stands up well but the arrangement is of its time although pleasingly a bit edgier on the last tour. I can appreciate why people like it, but it wouldn't make my Genesis top 20.
I have no intention of arguing with you. (There has been more than enough of that around these parts of late.) But your "thank you very much" is highly patronising and antagonistic when all I was doing was disagreeing with you. Equally, your suggestion I'm "only seeing what [I] want to see" in what you wrote says more about your own assumptions. I happen to think that the run of gigs at the end of the tour - especially given Collins' poor health - saw them at their peak. Yet such things are full of subjectivity and personal impression.
I think there might be crossed wires here. Let's move on.
I also disagree about the Earls Court (and accompanying) dates later in the year. Just to unexpectedly see them up close, indoors, was wonderful and the Newport date in particular remains possibly my favourite gig ever, by anyone. No motion-going at all perceived by this audient.
I'm sorry but you're seeing what you want to see and not what I wrote. I was there at Knebworth and Earls Court, so I'm well versed in how they performed thank you very much. My point was not an "FU" to Genesis or fans, or to "diss' certain shows, it's was a simple point that at Knebworth you could tell they were really up for it and they performed with energy, whereas at Earls Court it was more lacklustre, like this was the end of a long tour and they were doing their duty. Look at the films of Knebworth and Earls Court, I don't see how you could fail to tell the difference. Both were very professional, but there was extra energy in one of them.
It's no different to a comparison of Wembley 87 with the recent Hannover leak The notes are in the right places on both, but if you compare the Domino performances Hannover wins hands down.
They're human beings, some days they perform(ed) better than others.
As for the sets (and indeed music as well) I admire innovation and the WCD set was a big leap in terms of the technical side. It might not be viewed as such now but computing power is in a whole different league these days and this makes a huge difference. The show they put on in 1992 was very ambitious and must have cost them a ton of money.
The 1992 focus on the effects of their Jumbotrons looks quite "cheap" today, back the it was a "wow" when the picture of all three screens became one etc.
Other than that the light show wasn't as exciting as on previous tours. That changed in 2021 - their most recent stage show was their best for a long long time
Exactly. It's easy to critique with the benefit of hindsight but at the time this was a big change, and the full size version of that set in big open-air venue worked really well.
Credit to the band also for continuously innovating with their show. They could have done IT v2 with even more varilites but they took a different course.
OMG I can't believe that was 30 years ago! I remember it well. We had a good spot to the right and forward of the mixing tower, about 30 yards back from the stage, and the crowd was raucous. When the band came on the noise was incredible down there in the bowl,, like this was a grand homecoming after their goodnight at Wembley 5 years before (which of course was exactly what it was). Also the stage show, with the moving jumbotrons and light rigs, was an absolute jaw-dropper at the time.
It was a really energetic performance, far better than the Earls Court going-through-the-motions shows later in the year, but although I enjoyed the old medley, I remember being disappointed that the "old stuff" was left there, plus no Los Endos after the drum duet. Too much emphasis on WCD and IT.
Once again an odd choice of support act. At Wembley in 87 it was Paul Young, at Knebworth in 92 it was Lisa Stansfield. There were a good number of "WTF" glances going around the crowd but unlike 87 there was no bottle throwing.
My other abiding memory was not getting home until nearly 4 am because the car park jammed up.
It was a really good show, miles better than Earls Court as far as I was concerned but not quite as exciting as Wembley because of the setlist. Then again, I really needed to have been born 10 or 15 years earlier so I could have been there on the proggier tours.
For years I thought FYFM on 3SL put the SO version to shame, same with Afterglow. I guess I got carried away by Phil's newly found vocal power but in time I came to realize that delivering a song is also about mood and nuances, not necessarily power. The perks of aging, I guess but again, it's a mood thing, I can listen to the two versions equally, depending on the moment.
About Misunderstanding, one of the songs I started skipping, I agree that it is incredibly overrated, same with Abacab but I understand why the former is always played live.
FYFM on Seconds Out???? I get your point though, and I agree. It's the light and shade, power and delicacy that you get from those earlier songs and performances which appeals to me. In the 80s (and evident on 3SL) it was "BAM, we're here, we're good at what we do, take that, and that...and that" whereas in 77 it was more about the range and getting the most atmosphere from each piece. I think much of this was down to Steve Hackett still being in the band. Daryl might be technically more proficient but Steve had atmosphere in spades. Also, Tony was still using the Mellotron, which might have been a nightmare to maintain but the sounds it produced were perfect for classic Genesis and never matched by his synth efforts in later years. And although Hugh Padgham's production, with its very immediate sound, was perfect for the 'newer' numbers on 3SL, David Hentschel captured the feel of the bands 'older' numbers proportionately better on Seconds Out (despite SH being too low in the mix in places). In my view of course.
I've said enough!
Display MoreWhile I disagree with most of what you say about 3SL, especially in comparison to SO, I do largely agree with this ^. While I actually love M&SJ on Abacab - for me, it's a classic - the 3SL version is poor and somewhat clunky. But they needed to bolster the presence of the recent album otherwise it would've been represented by the title track and Dodo. No Reply didn't sound good live and would've been a poor choice; MOTC might've been a possibility I suppose.
FYFM is ok but underwhelming and as you say, that's characteristic of its live appearances generally. At the recent tour I went to 3 gigs and during the 2nd and 3rd FYFM was the only time the show started to drag a bit. It was also dull on the 07 tour.
Misunderstanding - I've never minded the song and thought DS added some nice touches to it live but the elongated vocal business near the end is irritating and overdone. (Did that feature during its appearance on the TLD tour?).
But yeah you're right, they were both big hits and couldn't realistically be left off.
Don't misunderstand me, I think Me and Sarah Jane is a reasonable track. In the studio. On stage, I think it was let down by Chester's drumming (sorry Chester) which lacked the subtlety and feel that the song needed. Phil is a bit too OTT as well.
When I saw Genesis at Twickenham in 2007 Follow You Follow Me was touching and brought a tear to my eye. The 3SL version feels like filler to me.
Misunderstanding - we'll have to agree to differ there! I agree that Daryl helps make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. However, I think Chester (again) lacks subtlety here, the bit at the end is toe curlingly awful and, well, the song is overrated generally. But life would be boring if we all agreed on everything.
I loved Fabrizio's summation. I can appreciate a good chunk of the band's simpler, more direct stuff (except that DREADFUL album with Stations in the title) and I can also appreciate the evolution of their live sound, particularly the 81 and 82 tours funnily enough, where they totally rocked. Also, against the grain here, I quite like the Abacab album and I think Phil's voice peaked at this time too.. However, the band I fell in love with was the band that went for ambitious arrangements, moods and complexity (but without disappearing up their own backsides like Yes etc) and that's why Seconds Out wins for me. I'm not a 3SL hater, it has some great live tracks and I listened to it only a couple of weeks ago, but Seconds Out is one of the top five that I will always enjoy because, for me, good progressive rock is music which takes you on a journey, and in this respect it beats 3SL hands down.
Bought it and played it to exhaustion, in time I began skipping a couple of songs but I loved the energy of the album. To me it isn't necessarily better or worse than SO, they just are very different, it's more of a mood thing. 3SL was summertime, packed with energy and joie de vivre, SO was more wintertime, intimate and wistful. I think Phil never got enough credit for the kind of singer he became, something that became evident evident on 3SL.
So well put. I agree.
It's a very good live album. I first got a copy about a year after it was released and I still listen to the In The Cage medley (sublime drumming in there), plus side 1 and very occasionally side 4 (although I'm not fan of One For The Vine, even though this version is superbly played). As for side 2, the first two tracks are great, but Me and Sarah Jane is boring (to my ears) and Follow You Follow Me might be a popular song but I don't think it offers anything here (or to most live shows) and I'd rather it had followed the proverbial lemmings off a cliff. There were other much better performed songs on the Abacab tour which lost out to those two. Similarly, I appreciate the business reasons for including Misunderstanding, but to me the real misunderstanding here is in the band's belief that a fan would actually listen to it. I always dropped the needle where the applause gave way to "I've got sunshine in my stomach".
It's all a question of individual taste though, and with a band which lasted this long and with such variation in its back catalogue, inevitably there will be wildly different opinions. However, I don't see how Three Sides Live can even hold a candle to Seconds Out. Admittedly, Seconds Out was the album which got me fixated on Genesis (I first heard it in 1981, I think) and so I'm particularly fond of it, but whether it's viewed as over-polished or not, sides 2, 3 and 4 are absolutely epic. Suppers Ready has the grace and beauty that this song needs, whereas in the Gabriel era it could be clunky at times and in the Encore era it was more of a rock performance than an attempt to take the listener on a journey. Cinema Show is full of energy, an absolute belter, and I don't think this rendition of Dance of a Volcano / Los Endos was ever bettered.
It's a shame the Lyceum show was never made a commercial release but the available bootleg versions (particularly TM) make it as good as.
I share the views of others that it's a pity they didn't delay the release of 3SL until after the Encore tour. Some of those performances were incredible and (notwithstanding my comments above) it was brilliant to hear them dusting off Suppers Ready again. To my ears, that setlist was one of the strongest they ever played.
Anyway, I'd rank 3SL at number 2 for their live albums.
I feel the same about Whitesnake. Saw them in the early 80s and just the other day wqs the second time! Farewell tour. I know nothing of Tool you make want to check them out.
Lucky man if you saw Whitesnake in the early days. That early line up with the Deep Purple backbone was a really strong band.
Confession - I saw someone's YouTube upload of their recent O2 gig and I thought it wasn't bad, but David Coverdale's voice is (inevitably) not a patch on his younger days and the band still seem to think it's 1987. I'm sure I'd have sung along if I was there though and I have a renewed appreciation of their bass lines!
I'm a Tool convert now, but they're infinitely better live than they are in the studio. Their sound needs a big live PA and I have truly never seen such an effective use of lights, screens etc with the sound. It's like a two hour trip.
The Charlatans, Aberdeen Music Hall, last week. I've been missing out on seeing them since I became a fan over 20 years ago - their closest gigs to me always clashed with other things. Even this one was scheduled for last December, I was poised to go but it was postponed due to some virus or other. I thought, the universe really doesn't want me to see this band!
So I'm glad I finally did and it was worth the wait, I enjoyed it very much. I also added an extra day to give me some time to enjoy Aberdeen, a city I've previously been a bit ambivalent about. On this trip I started to warm to it a bit more and look forward to my next chance to visit.
I've followed them on and off since Some Friendly, which I used to play to death. Only seen them live once though, at V Festival (2007 I think
Whitesnake's best era for me was the early years when the blues was strong in them and the hairspray and leather hadn't showed up. I still listen to Live In The Heart of the City, a great live album. That line up (the one with Ian Paice on drums) was brilliant.
Then I saw them at Donington in 1990. WAY too OTT; the worst excesses of 1980s hard rock but after the 80s had closed out and others had recognised that times were changing. Abiding memories of that day were the opening band, the then little-known Thunder, blowing everyone else away (including Aerosmith and Whitesnake) and the Hells Angels at the back throwing drinks bottles of p1ss over the rest of us.
The last live show I went to was Tool at O2 on 10 May. I barely knew anything abut them beforehand and I wasn't expecting much when I arrived, but it turned out to be the best gig I've ever attended. Incredible band, superhuman drummer and the trippiest visuals. Great also that cameras were banned from the main show and only allowed on the encore which, whilst fantastic, was more straight up in format. It made the main show a sort of secret ultra special event. More of an experience than just a gig.
