Posts by WinstonWolf

Even if they forego the actual box, I'd love to see the surround mixes re-released for those that didn't get them the first time around. It's hard to believe it's been 12-13 years since those sets came out, so I don't think any complaints of "double dipping" would be particularly valid.

I think the biggest stumbling block is that there still isn't a truly agreed upon audiophile format, so choosing one is going to limit sales potential. There was a lot of push back in 2007 from folks that didn't have 5.1 home theater systems. DVD-A was dismissed as inferior because Europe got SACD. But SACD is an even smaller niche market than it was, and it seems (based on more recent audio releases) that 5.1 in a totally audio format isn't very popular anymore. Now that vinyl is seeing a big resurgence it splits the audiophile market even more.

MP3 is easy and it pleases the masses because it is able to go where the listener goes. None of the hi rez formats do that well, they're all dependent on equipment and that limits how the consumer will consume it.

It seems like Genesis is trying to build up some momentum with the impending tour but I fear it might be a bit of an uphill climb to convince the record company to get on board such a large project.

Quote from Witchwood

Stagnation was always my favourite song off the album and it would probably be in my Top 10 overall for Genesis.

In my teens, I thought The Knife was a powerful track and one of their best songs.

40 years later, I think within the context of the album, it's still a powerful track and I still get an adrenaline rush from the intro.

But that thrill doesn't last and I find overall I actually prefer the five other tracks on the album.

Aside from Stagnation, I chose Dusk and Visions Of Angels.

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Even though I still chose The Knife, I almost didn't. I feel like it's the standout track on the album, though not entirely in the positive way. The other five songs all contribute to creating a more cohesive vibe on an album whose greatest strength might be the mood it has. The Knife doesn't fit with the rest quite as neatly, though it makes for a great album closer, and it is still undoubtedly a strong song.

I chose White Mountain, Stagnation, and The Knife.

I like all three songs, though I think that because of the running time limitations they chose the right songs to include and exclude from Wind and Wuthering.

I'm not saying "new" means recorded in 2007, but Nick clearly put some parts of the songs together differently in the remix than they were originally. Mama's outro is clearly longer and different than the original album version. Same with Anything She Does. Longer. Different vocals. The Way We Walk and Genesis Live are different because Nick didn't use all of the overdubs used on the original releases. Trespass has drums that were never there on the original version.

You're welcome to continue being contrary, but that ditch you speak of is only big enough for you.

Quote from StillCan'tDance

Nothing new was added to the new mixes. Everything you hear was already on the tapes in the first place.

That's simply not correct. Mama is a different edit. Anything She Does is a different edit. Several songs on The Way We Walk and Genesis Live use different/fewer overdubs. There's a song on Trespass that has a drum part included that was never there on the original release. There were several times throughout the remixing where Nick Davis used different elements that are clearly not just "lifting the veil" of a muddy original mix.

I'm struggling to remember if the issue with the longer version of It's Gonna Get Better was ever addressed by Nick Davis.

Considering how many other songs in the remix project got new parts added in I don't believe the shorter IGGB was an artistic decision, especially since the longer version was how they performed the song live. I just don't remember if anyone asked Nick or if he ever answered.

I gave my error discs away to a friend, so I don't remember for sure what the problem was, but I do recall it was fairly minor.

I think the 5.1 Seconds Out sounds amazing, and the new stereo mix is really good as well.

I don't really see the "loud concert" comment as a problem for me. I'd always felt that the original mix of Seconds Out was way too polite sounding and the new mix added some power where it needed it. I don't think it sounds loud for the sake of just being loud, I think it sounds live...

There was an error in the pressing of the original stereo CD's and Rhino offered corrected replacements. I think there was a track index in the wrong place.

I think Phil has expressed having problems with the lyrics in the past, but I think (unlike many guys his age) he's getting a lot more mellow about some things that used to bother him more.

I also think that's a song he could sing pretty easily, and it's what, 3 minutes long?

Seems like an easy win for everyone to me. We get an unplayed song, Tony gets a song he likes, Phil has a song that should be easy to perform.

Quote from StillCan'tDance

That might have been more to do with the album being mastered by Bob Ludwig than the actual production. Hugh Padgham had been working with the band since Abacab but - as far as I know - Invisible Touch was the only album which they passed it on to an outside source to do the mastering. Bob Ludwig is something of a legend in the music business.

Separating the production/mixing from the mastering is probably a little more complicated than making it an either/or situation, but I agree that the problem with Invisible Touch's overall sound probably falls on the mastering to a greater degree.

I believe the problem of a bass-lite sound has to do with in the early days of compact disc the recording industry often used the same masters made for vinyl for CD, and vinyl needs a mix with less bass because it interferes with groove depth.

The original CD suffers from the same problem a lot of early CDs did; they're lacking bottom end and the treble sounds harsh and tinny at times. "Thin" is how I'd describe it.

The 2007 remix makes everything sound a lot more spacious (making it easier to hear a lot of subtle details that were previously squished) but it also removed that digital gloss and increased the bass, making the album sound more balanced.

Rehearsed maybe, but recorded at Trident Studios...

Quote from Backdrifter

Are you suggesting any specific someone?

Given that (as mentioned above) there were reports from at least one venue of sales not even having reached 100 tickets - and we're talking about arenas that would usually be a minimum of 8,000-10,000 capacity if not more - it wouldn't take long before becoming apparent that sales were not going to suddenly take off. The characteristic on-sale pattern with high-profile bands is that there is huge demand as soon as the ticket sales start. Arena shows don't usually sell out or get close to capacity through long-term ongoing steady sales. It can happen, but with the album not sustaining its sales it was unlikely ticket sales would suddenly undergo a surge.

The years between WCD and CAS saw one of the greatest changes in music and other cultural preferences since the late 70s. While Genesis produced an album with a markedly different feel, it was nevertheless released into a music and cultural scene that had changed a lot in 6 years, and it didnt chime with people in the same way. Add into that the point made earlier that the pulling-power of PC was absent - and bear in mind even his own pulling power, at least in terms of album sales, had declined from pre-WCD to pre-CAS (though again, as above, as a live act he still got arses on seats).

I think there are arguments to be made for, as you said, fans having not abandoned the band as such - I myself didn't go on that tour, or indeed the WCD tour but that didn't mean I'd stopped being a Genesis fan - but the plain fact is that in the US too few people wanted to go see them.

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I have no insight into how the band operates, but it seems like most of the failures were Tony Smith-level work.

It should have been expected that promoting the band was going to be a little harder this time around, and while Mike and Tony may not have expected the extent that was true, that's why they have representation to make those kinds of decisions.

It's been said that Atlantic pulled Calling All Stations' advertising budget to promote Matchbox 20 as a reason for why the album had no promotion but the tour seemed to receive no promotion either. Why is that? If they couldn't find a corporate sponsor why didn't they pay for some promotion themselves?

I don't dispute they couldn't tour if they didn't sell tickets, but no one is going to buy tickets if they don't know there is a tour or that tickets have gone on sale. I had already been going into my local record shop every week to check on a release date for Archive 1 for the better part of two years so once Calling All Stations was announced I made asking about concert dates part of my routine too.

But even with checking Ticketmaster weekly I never did find out about any tour dates before I heard the whole tour had been cancelled.

So again I wonder just how long tickets had been on sale before they pulled the plug? I agree concert sales are usually front-loaded but it seems like they expected rapid sales in spite of the lack of advertising.

The Musical Box, Seven Stones, and The Fountain of Salmacis for me.

The odd thing about the US tour is it was canceled before I heard tickets had even gone on sale.

I doubt I was the only one caught off guard by that and I've always wondered just how long tickets had been on sale before they pulled the plug.

I think the real reason was someone had lost enthusiasm and just didn't want to go ahead with the tour and poor ticket sales was the excuse for it. Just because tickets didn't sell out in a matter of a few hours doesn't mean fans abandoned the band, only the scalpers had.

I'll echo what several others have already mentioned. Nursery Cryme feels a little too restrained for me at times. From a production standpoint it also sounds a bit too clean and a bit muffled, which sucks a lot of energy out of the whole thing. Phil's drums sound especially terrible on this album.

It sounds obvious they were working quickly and wanted to get "good" takes on tape, especially since we have the luxury of hearing many great live versions of these songs from subsequent performances. While the "perfect" studio sound suits some of the later albums better (the Lamb especially IMO) I think most of what is on Nursery Cryme feels a little lacking.

That said, I still think it's a good album, and it is one I've warmed to a lot over the years. I've also found myself appreciating the deeper cuts more. It's possibly due to overexposure with the bigger songs but I think Seven Stones, Harlequin, and even little ol' For Absent Friends help add a lot of texture and variety that keeps the album as a whole interesting.

I really want to check out The Genesis Show. I was trying to make it to their Three Sides Live show when live music started going down the drain...

Watcher of the Skies and Supper's Ready (no surprises) and Get 'Em Out By Friday for my third. I feel like it and Time Table always seem underappreciated but I've always found those songs really compelling.