so is their a reason it eas left off the archive box set? Time??
The official reason quoted at the time was that the tape ran out on the night.
Posts by foxfeeder
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Ahem - I'm a VDGG fan, though even on that basis I'm not sure I can honestly say I "love" them. It's more that I learned to accept that most of their songs will inevitably portend the slow lingering death of the entire universe, and decided I can live with that. I was amused to find a compilation CD of various album and non-album tracks (and of course their biggest pop hits - I'm kidding) was entitled 'I Prophesy Disaster' over a pic of the band laughing so someone somewhere has a sense of humour. I do totally understand people finding them unlistenable.
As a Radiohead fan I sometimes weary of everyone telling me they're miserable, depressing, etc (obviously I don't think they are) and have occasionally felt like pointing them towards some VDGG to put things in perspective. e.g. their catchy ditty 'w', an account of someone's hollow meaningless life of unrelenting torpor which concludes with the line "You stay in bed all day, then at 6 o'clock you realise you're dead".
I love it!
Nowt wrong with miserable, depressing, etc. Music allows you to wallow and enjoy those emotions, pain free. VDGG, however, are just tedious and boring (IMO), move along, nothing to enjoy here.
Incidentally, I said it on the old forum, there are 2 types of prog: Progressive Rock: Rock music truly being taken in a new direction. progressive rock: Rock music treading the path of existing prog, an early example being the first, third and fourth Marillion albums. I like all 3 of them, but they brought nothing new to the table. Fugazi, the second album, was just a failure, apart from Assassing, which was very good. All para 2 is IMO.
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Not a popular view these days, is it?
I suppose the 'prog' fans are a dying breed... or they just can't be arsed anymore.
Sorry if I'm being a pain, guys'n'gals, but I really have no reason to be on this forum other than my love of the... legacy
As a Hackett era fan myself, I have to say I DO see your point, up to a point. However, music doesn't have to be prog to be good, and who wants to only listen to one style of music anyway. Well, I suppose some people do, but I find there are several itches to scratch. In any case, there's some awful prog, VDGG spring to mind, you're gonna say you love them, I suppose!
As for Genesis, I don't actually have any particular fondness for the post 77 stuff, although Duke stands up pretty well, BUT I will concede that, given their level of talent, it was inevitable that Genesis would make some pretty fine pop music if that was the path they chose. I may not seek out the later stuff, but I'll listen to it happily if it comes on, or the odd occasion when I spin R-Kive! I only bought it to shore up their investment fund!
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Everyone OK for toilet paper?
We have The Sun delivered!
(We don't, that was purely for comic effect)
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Interesting track
There were others. One I recall is a spoof of Curiosity Killed the Cat, which included the line "poor Tiddles!"
These are the people who got in a spot of bother for doing a song as the HeeBeeGeeBees called "Meaningless songs (In Very High Voices)
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All self-penned, no doubt.
No, none at all!
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Another randomly remembered thing - some time in 86 BBC radio show Radioactive did a spoof of Sledgehammer, with Philip Pope impersonating PG singing "One thing I can't work out is this/I can't tell the difference between/Phil Collins and Genesis!" I just tried a cursory search for it but didn't find it.
I honestly thought I'd shared this with the forum, must've been the old one! Recorded by me off the radio during a repeat in the 1990's:
http://www.mediafire.com/file/…ollinsandgenesis.mp3/file
You'll have to download it first, I think. Getting mediafire links to work 1st time is a problem, if it doesn't work, let me know.
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I strongly doubt that this is anything other than whimsical conjecture on your part. But even if it were true, what relevance it has to the issue at hand is beyond me.
Nope, it's all fact, easy to check on Company House website. As for relevance, I suggest you read back over the thread. Apologies, but publicly accessible threads don't have to follow one's personal choice or agenda. Lord knows, I've had to put up with some irrelevant s***!
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That Kind o' Girl - Jesse Rae
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I see what you're getting at but personally I take the view that they recruited him, and he was on an album and a tour. To me, he was a member of Genesis, regardless of those legal considerations you mentioned. I think band membership goes beyond those tangibles and whatever appeared or didn't appear on various dotted lines, the band and their management clearly regarded RW as a member of Genesis - I'll take that.
Well, I did say IMO...……………………….
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Lodger Wright - Music Inspired By The Lion The Witch And The Wardrobe (2020)
Symphonic / Electronic / Instrumental...UK
The cover artist has used a very literal interpretation of the title! I wonder if he's ever worked for Chumbawamba?
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Blue World - The Moody Blues.
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For the record, Ray Wilson was a member of Genesis. This was confirmed by Carol Willis when she worked for Hit & Run (Tony Smith Personnel Management), during a few phone calls and emails between 2007/2009.
So Ray Wilson in the eyes of the Genesis management was a member. Ray might not of had the longevity of other members, but from 1996 through to the middle of 1998 he was a member.
John Mayhew, Chris Stewart, Mick Barnard were in the group for a shorter period of time.
Worth considering.
TGA
Ray was indeed portrayed as a member of the band, why would they have done it differently? But he has never been a member in the same sense as the others, in that he never had any legal presence in related companies like Gelring Ltd, Fisher Lane Farm Ltd, etc.
At the time of Mayhew, Stewart, Barnard et all, it's doubtful there were any companies to be part of, it was (for the band) all so much simpler then, you joined the band and stayed, or left, no paper trail to be followed. But, once there's big bucks involved, the legal niceties take hold, and you soon discover who is in control, and who does as they're told.
It's no different in other bands, Patrick Moraz was portrayed as a member of the Moody Blues, but once he started acting up, the truth soon came out. He has never appeared in their company documents either. I'm sure there are similar stories in other bands, Yes being one likely example.
Whether you (Personally? Both of you? It's hard to tell from your posts!
) choose to accept the legal definition, or the management's claims, is up to you, and, for what it's worth, I liked Ray's input, and much of CAS better than some of the other stuff, but IMO (and, I suspect, Ray's) he was not a full permanent member of the band.Ian
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Look at Hackett - of course his Genesis-themed shows delight certain fans and I absolutely get that, but he fairly regularly releases new albums then proceeds to go on the road playing almost nothing from them, focusing instead on stuff he did 40 years ago. To me, that's the very definition of playing it safe, something Genesis didn't tend to do.
Sadly, I have to agree! I've given up going to Steve's shows, because I want to hear him do his stuff. But worse still, since GR2, and it's chart success, he has opted to tread a safe, and boring course. His last 3 albums are tedious. I am sure he COULD do better, but doesn't want to upset the apple cart.
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I'm not sure what relevance my conversation with another poster has on any discourse I might have with you (and for the record, I don't know which conversation you're referencing here; clearly you're a bigger fan of my posts than I am) but the rest of your reply indicates an attempt to punch above your intellectual weight and an inability to italicise.
Are you familiar with the film Get Carter? Try on this quote for size: "You're a big man, but you're in bad shape. With me it's a full time job. Now behave yourself."
A fan of your posts? No. I don't think oysters are fans of sand, but they form pearls to deal with them. As for intellectual weight, I'm surprised you can spell it, but then, I guess The Computer Helps! Personally, I don't believe italics do though, hence why I don't bother with them. If you can't follow a post without them, that's YOUR problem.
If there is ANYONE on this forum unqualified to tell anyone else to behave themselves, it's you. Many members, and the moderators, are very well aware of this. I'd suggest YOU behave, or you won't have a job here at all!
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Okay, lets have a little reality check here.
Fact Number One: Blood On The Rooftops is as much Phil as it is Steve.
Fact Number Two: It was Tony Banks (the man you Hackett fans think of as the anti-christ) who suggested they play Rooftops when the band last went out on the road.
Fact Number Three: You have no evidence that Genesis don't want to acknowledge their former guitarist.
Fact Number Four: Ray Wilson appeared in Sum Of The Parts.
1/ BOTR was verses by Hackett, chorus by Hackett and Collins, though it truth, the only part I've actually seen acknowledged as Collins was the title.
2/ I, and I guess MOST Hackett biased fans would agree and acknowledge that Banks is the hinge pin of Genesis, even Steve said if Banks left, Genesis would no longer exist. Banks isn't the barrier, I believe, it's Rutherford, who was behind the commission of Sum of the Parts.
3/ From the man who asked ANOTHER board member for evidence of HIS OWN bias towards Phil Collins! Presumably then, you need evidence for the inner workings of your own mind, so I doubt you'd believe evidence of anything outside it.
4/ Just not a fact. If you don't accept Ray's absence as evidence of trying to airbrush him, nothing I could say is going to convince you. For the record, IMO, Ray wasn't a member of Genesis, he was a hired hand, like Chester and Daryl, etc, whether fans choose to accept him as one, based on his appearance on the record, sleeves, promo videos and so on, is a matter for individual opinion, but he was never a member in the same sense as Peter, Steve, Ant, or the early drummers, John and Chris.
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I was really only listing what I thought was possible given Phil's current abilities, not probable. I agree that Blood On the Rooftops would be a longshot, but it would be doable because the verses are keyed quite low and the chorus goes high in a falsetto kind of way, which he might be able to handle.
I agree it's doable, (excluding the intro, don't let Daryl ruin that!) but it won't happen.
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All this mention of Blood on the Rooftops: They will never perform it, it's predominantly Hackett, and they don't want to acknowledge him at all, just like Ray Wilson. Remember Sum of the parts?
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McDonald and Dodds, a new Detective drama, set in Bath. Only 2 episodes in this first series, but ep.1 was good, and Jason Watkins was excellent as usual, but there was something more, a favourable flavour about the whole thing.
The explanation came at the very end of the credits, it was a Mammoth Production! Same company as Endeavour.
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OK
Personally I've become increasingly bored these last few years with trying out new prog rock bands. Which is weird, because several of my favourite artists are of course prog rock. My favourite three are all prog: Genesis, Porcupine Tree and Marillion (although Marillion has admittedly a fair amount of mediocre stuff; however, their best work is magnificent to me, and Hogarth is one of my favourite vocalists). Camel and Pendragon are #4 and #5.
I'm not undermining prog rock as a genre, or denying the amount of work the bands put into their music, but the older I get, the less music I feel I need. And I find that when I do seek new music that gives me a listening experience that I cannot get from many other places; sounds I've never heard before. Sigur Ros, whom I started listening to in 2016, is an example. I also got into R.E.M. over the last two or three years. Fabulously inventive rock group, easily America's best in my book. Much of the newer prog rock I've tried in recent years just hasn't given me the same happiness and satisfaction as bands like those.
To be honest, I feel like in this dark and difficult time we're living through, I mostly just want to hear easy music: some nice upbeat rock, a bit of metal, acoustic/folky stuff, ambient music, some nice jazzy chillout/lounge, with the occasional bit of prog thrown in. I've learned that sometimes, the simplest music can be the most affecting. There's just too many prog rock bands out there to explore and it got really exhausting once I'd finished exploring all the classic prog groups back in university and tried to move onto more challenging groups. That was back when I used to post their album covers multiple times a day on the old forum.
But, as you mentioned, this is a matter of personal preference. The prog rock I do enjoy is still awesome at the end of the day. It just nowadays takes a particularly interesting and different prog rock band to impress me, and I prefer ones who don't make too many lengthy/over-complicated songs.
May I point you in the general direction of XTC, the albums Black Sea, Big Express and Oranges and Lemons would be good starting points. I'm sure you can hear them somewhere before parting with hard cash!
