Posts by Fabrizio

    All true and it's both worrisome and disheartening, there's another problem; an entire world order needs to be rethought without depending so much on the US. Trump was a train wreck bound to happen, it was enough to watch the Republican primaries in the past decades to know that they were only a heartbeat away from electing a madman or madwoman to the presidency: Palin Santorum, Bachmann, Buchanan, Santorum and the list go on and on, then a black President was elected and a nation lost its collective mind, enter Trump. I've always bemoaned the US behaving like the 600 pound gorilla but I've always said, it was because we were unwilling to wipe our on behind and also I preferred them a thousand time to Russia or China. Things have changed, a REAL European Union would have been probably a good idea, this one is useless.

    The post that is missing is one from Slowdancer, if memory serves, with the picture of Trump behind bars, and a post from another forum about him.


    Seems someone objects to the idea of Trump in prison, AND YET Trump himself was banging on at the last election about putting Hilary Clinton in jail for the "crime" of using the wrong email server. If that is a crime, not sure it is anywhere, let alone the USA.

    He's doing it again now, with Biden, Biden's son, Hilary of course, Obama, CNN and so on....

    I was talking to an American friend and he agreed with the that there's a lot at stake with this elections but there is a much larger problem which won't go away even if Biden wins, over 30% of the country are behind that orange-tinted, wannabe dictator, con-man. Ahhh, the decadence of an empire in plain sight and in real time--

    I just can't abide the sickly sweet stuff (post-Hackett Genesis+Collins solo career) they chose to peddle to that end and which was prefigured by MFM :|

    While we seem to share the same taste regarding the excess of saccharine, I have a hard time comparing MfM with stuff they did later. I don't think they wrote it, recorded it and released it under the illusion and with the intention that it would become a big hit, like they did with , say, Into deep or Hold on my heart which proved them right and Never a time which proved them wrong. All of them quite horrendous BTW. It's just a little, harmless thing they wrote I guess, without second thoughts, just for fun.

    I never understood the dislike some have of After the Ordeal : it's a wonderfully melodic and uplifting little instrumental, and an apt and relaxing coda to Epping Forest. Could it be that people only heard it with Tony's backhanded dig (making a point of not liking his own playing on it) in mind?

    I can't speak for others but Tony's opinion doesn't dictate what I like or less. Ordeal imho is really lightweight, not something I have to skip but also not something to write home about. Apparently nobody within the band liked it, Tony wasn't the only one but they couldn't find a compromise, specifically on the instrumental of the Cinema Show , so it made the final cut.

    Personally, I love BoEP; It's messy, over the top and extremely busy but there's so much brilliance in it here and there that it has become very pleasant to listen to it. I agree with Phil that it should have probably been an instrumental, nor does it help that it isn't Peter's best vocal line, particularly the verses, the lyrics though are brilliant and funny. The instrumental bridges after the 'picnic' bits are a thing of beauty and the coda too, Yes, they went a bit over the top but it was an ambitious band, trying to pack a lot of creativity and different ideas into a single song. Listening to that record and now remembering it, even in its least celebrated moments, what lingers with me, apart from the beauty, is the incredible creativity of the band. They were trying really hard and personally I like that.

    I came across this rather unqique review here:


    I'd say I only agree with half of it, but it made me think. Was Foxtrot a better album, as a whole, i.e. better balanced, as the reviewer writes? Does Selling only stand out due to its three all time classics Firth of fifth, Cinema show and Dancing with the moonlit knight? Did it really mark the end of a era?


    Open for debate ... still think it might be their masterpriece

    I think the band doesn't really have a definitive masterpiece, Mike said it once, they have a string of very solid, strong albums but there isn't an equivalent to The Dark Side of the Moon for Genesis.

    Fans' opinions are split on the subject and even band members' opinions rarely converge on the topic. Trick, is my favorite. not because it is necessarily better, I just developed a connection with that album. Trick though, even being a much more even effort, doesn't have the peaks of SEBTP and those peaks alone are able not only to conceal the weaker parts of the album but to push it up there. Last time I checked on progarchives it was ranking second, after Close to the Edge, as best prog album of all times. In a way in could be seen as the end of an era, it is probably the last album on which the band worked as a unit.

    I was introduced to Genesis borrowing Foxtrot from a friend. I then bought Trespass and went on buying the rest in very random order, I think the second one was Trick. The first album I bought immediately upon release was Abacab, I obviously continued with Shapes. When I saw the video to Invisible Touch I decided that could wait.

    There is no bias as you said, just a pure interest in the content of the albums.


    I'm a sucker for polls and statistics so this kind of thing is intriguing 🙂

    Some level of bias has been implied or alleged , on occasion in the past. I've always maintained that time and distance allow a dispassionate look at their whole body of work and a strong album is simply that, a strong album. It doesn't matter who sang on it. If their latest output, regardless of the undeniable advantages it enjoys, is considered weaker, a trend btw applicable to almost any major artist with a decades long career, well, that is probably accurate and reliable.

    The albums after Duke are way down in the polls.

    It has always been a case though, in many different forums and throughout the years. Perhaps there are some Forums where later albums are top choices but personally I haven't come across any of them . Curiously enough, Duke which usually ranks quite high, as it should imo, is a 3-man era album and cannot certainly be defined as prog, which would appear to indicate there is no particular bias at work.

    Oh well, there you go.

    I've been a Genesis fan for over 40 years, albums have been released , played, listened to, reviewed and criticized ad nauseum. It's safe to assume their relevance in the Genesis catalogue has sunken in by now. Polls are an indicator, more or less precise if you will but they are. If the most recent albums which have the huge advantage of being the most recent, almost invariably occupy the last positions, perhaps it isn't a coincidence.

    The band is no more, they haven't released an album in over 20 years and I reckon they won't anymore.

    With all this in mind, as long as I make clear that I'm expressing an opinion and I am respectful of anybody's taste and opinions which is not always the case here, as I was able to appreciate from very recent comments, I see no point in tiptoeing around or mincing words and I reserve the right to call it as I see it. Sure, some fans might think that say, Another Record, just to mention a dud is a great song, I happen to think they can write stuff like that in their sleep and by gravity a song like that, with time, gets the relevance it deserves. None. It doesn't mean somebody cannot possibly like it, more power to them but we seem to be unable to break out of the equation I like it=it's great or at least it must be great. I wish my favorite band had only released perfect albums with perfect songs, unfortunately for them, as for any other artist it wasn't always the case and I think we should be able to say that. Very few bands are able to keep the fire in their belly with a decades-spanning career, I would say that U2 for instance, whether one likes them or less, deserve a lot of respect because they constantly tried to do just that: keep the flame alive. Genesis simply didn't imo and I don't feel like blaming them, I just liked them more when they were less sleek smooth and glossy but so very intense, original and unique. There is no sin in saying it, I reckon.

    Don't you like it then??

    Not their finest hour IMO but as I said, it happens when a band is running on empty at the end of a long career. I can understand that people who got on board around that time may like it, Genesis are after all great musicians and songwriters, the energy and drive might dwindle but talent and skills are still there, as polished as ever in fact, at times too much. People who had been around longer however, cannot help comparing.

    Well... some people have spoken.

    I'll bet not as much as it pains me to see The Lamb trailing behind W&W.

    Well, if you REALLY want to go there NC got only 1% more than ATTW3 and WCD. Apocalypse now: the Horror....The Horror....I can't think of a more tired, listless, light coke, autopilot mode, contractual obligation smelling, end of the road album than WCD. Three good songs in a sea of mediocrity as far as I'm concerned. Apart from a few exceptions, overall the laziest lyrics ever penned by Genesis and to be clear why not? After an over 20 year career, with some remarkable albums under their belt. It can happen but as I said, people like it and they have spoken.

    I'm not. I don't like it very much but given the preferences members tend to express here, I find it unsurprising W&W is so highly ranked - if I'm surprised about anything it's that it isn't higher.

    I would agree it is a bit of a surprise, W&W does generally rank high but I don't remember ever seeing it taking third place and like many here, I've seen my share of polls and forums. Some things are constant, like either Trick or SEBTP there at the top which is about right in my book. Generally speaking I'm fine with the results and even if I weren't, the people have spoken. I think Foxtrot and NC could have done better but I must say, it pains me a bit to see Trespass ranking after IT.