Posts by Snowbound

    Seems to me like he's saying he'll be done. By extension of course that means Genesis, unless Tony and Mike decide to do something extremely unlikely. I needn't point out here that the band has two other front men they *could* call upon if they wanted.

    And if Tony and Mike REALLY don’t want to bring Peter or Ray back they could always get Martin Levac. The fella sounds exactly like Phil. Not saying that I want them to do that, just pointing out that they COULD. How would y’all feel if they got Levac? I’d personally prefer a Gabriel and Hackett reunion with Chester on drumming duty.. regardless I don’t think either’s gonna happen

    Par for the course for him now. Do a new album, then play a couple of tracks from it on tour in a show otherwise comprising a Genesis album and a handful of his own old stuff.


    It smacks of having no conviction in his own new material but most fans probably don't care. The shows are popular and I don't begrudge him or the fans that but I do think it's a shame in some ways.

    I think it has less to do with him having “no conviction in his own new material” and more to do with the fact that Second’s Out takes up the majority of the set. TBH I have mixed feelings on the second’s out tour. On the one hand I missed his initial Genesis Revisited tours so I’m looking forward to seeing him in the states next year. On the other hand I would prefer more of his solo material... or at least if he were to do mostly Genesis stuff I’d rather he didn’t follow the order of Second’s Out. Imo Second’s Out has a terrible flow due to the space limitations of vinyl. I find afterglow by itself to be particularly egregious as I feel the songs works best being transitioned into. I would prefer a set where he plays all the songs from Second’s Out but changes the order to flow better. This would be my ideal set for the tour:


    Squonk

    Carpet Crawlers

    Every Day

    Held In The Shadows

    Robbery, Assault and Battery

    Cinema Show

    The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway

    The Musical Box

    Shadow of the Hierophant (instrumental)


    The Air Conditioned Nightmare (to celebrate Cured’s anniversary)

    Afterglow

    I Know What I Like

    The Devil’s Cathedral

    Firth of Fifth

    Supper’s Ready


    Dance On A Volcano

    Los Endos (w/ Myopia intro + Slogans interlude)

    Whilst we could not comment on the Fukoka Show. There was a full show recorded in Singapore, this is sat in Phil's archive.


    TGA

    I recall someone from Phil Collins’s social media/management team publicly stating that there are no recordings from the Both Sides tour. I’m not arguing with u; I suspect you’re right. I just wonder why Phil and Genesis are letting so much archival material collect dust. Steve Hackett has commented that there’s live stuff he would like released but that it’s not up to him

    Am I the only one who thinks "Abacab" is a bizarre choice for a show closer?

    I seem to be the only person that wouldn’t mind if Abacab was the show closer. Honestly my main concern is that the encore will be a low energy affair like it was in 2007. Ending with Carpet Crawlers was super moving on that tour but I don’t think it would be as emotionally effective this time. I also really don’t want them to close with Fading Lights. Fading Lights is a powerful song about accepting mortality but I personally would want the show to end on an energetic song like Abacab that leaves the audience wanting more... whereas Fading Lights would leave the audience depressed lol

    Sweet! I never really heard the “country” elements in this song in the Genesis version, despite Phil introducing it as a country & western song during the Mama tour. Now I get it!

    I’ve always loved “That’s All” because it sounded, to me ,like a country song done as an 80s synth pop song. I also hear some Beatles and jazz influence in the track as well. That’s All almost reminds me of Aja era Steely Dan because like Aja, That’s All has many genre influences and they all seamlessly meet in the middle

    I’m going to make a couple predictions based off the track listing from the box set:

    1. Based on the songs following Home By The Sea in the tracklisting of the box set I suspect that Home By The Sea is going to be the start of a medley. I think they may cut the song’s vocal reprise at the end and instead play a snippet of “Fading Lights”. Fading Lights could lead into the instrumental section of Cinema Show which then goes into Afterglow. This sounds like it might be too long for these guys now so they might do these songs but shortened and in a different order or just end HBTS with the Fading Lights snippet.

    2. I am 99% positive that the acoustic set will be: That’s All, In Too Deep, Follow You Follow Me & Duchess. we can guess when the acoustic set starts in the set from the song locations in the boxset since we know they are doing an acoustic version of That’s All. However there’s additional reasons to suspect these songs. They wanted to do ITD on the 2007 tour but it was too difficult vocally. If they do the song in an acoustic arrangement augmented with backing vocalists I think Phil could pull it off. Phil and Mike did an acoustic version of FUFM in 2019 so that makes it a likely inclusion in the acoustic set. Given that we know they have been working on a new arrangement of Duchess it makes sense that it would be acoustic. I think The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway, Afterglow and I Can’t Dance are also possibilities.

    3. The Encore will be Dancing with the moonlit knight’s intro, The Carpet Crawlers and Abacab

    Welp I’ve posted multiple predictions on this thread so I figure one more couldn’t hurt:

    1. Duke’s Intro/Turn It On Again
    2. No Son of Mine
    3. Land Of Confusion
    4. Old Medley: In The Cage-Cinema Show(instrumental)-Apocalypse in 9/8-Carpet Crawlers OR Afterglow
    5. Follow You Follow Me
    6. Home By The Sea-Second Home By The Sea
    7. (New) Duchess
    8. Abacab
    9. Mama
    10. Throwing It All Away
    11. Domino
    12. Fading Lights (short version)
    13. Invisible Touch

    Encore:

    1. I Can’t Dance
    2. Firth of Fifth (solo) - I Know What I Like

    Abacab hasn't made the cut in ages. It's unlikely it will resurface now.

    I thought Nic said they were rehearsing Abacab at one point? Even if I am recalling that correctly it dosen’t necessarily mean that Abacab made it into the final show. One thing to keep in mind tho is that while it’s been 35 years since they played abacab, that was only 2 tours ago for this lineup of Genesis (3 if you include CAS). And of all the “long dead” songs that Genesis could revive, Abacab is pretty likely because it was a hit (peaking at #9 in the UK & #26 in the US)

    You have inspired me to make my own version of Invisible Touch. However mine is an extended CD version that also utilizes live recordings and covers to present these songs in what I consider to be the best possible light:


    1. Land Of Confusion

    2. In Too Deep (Martin Levac trio - A Visible Jazz Touch of Genesis vol 3)

    3. Do The Neurotic (outtake)

    4. Tonight, Tonight, Tonight (single version)

    5. Invisible Touch (The Way We Walk: the shorts)

    6. Feeding the Fire (outtake)

    7. Anything She Does

    8. Domino (Wembly 1987)

    9. I’d Rather Be You (outtake)

    10. Throwing It All Away (Wembly 1987)

    11. The Brazilian (Wembly 1987)


    Mike Rutherford has mentioned that despite “Invisible Touch” being their poppiest album that their live show remained more evenly distributed between long and short songs. Thus I tried to make this CD resemble the flow of their live show. Think of this as Genesis’s take of Bruce Springsteen’s “The River” (a double album meant to use new compositions to capture the energy of his live performances). I open with the studio version of “Land Of Confusion” and follow it up with the Martin Levac Trio’s cover of “In Too Deep”. For a long time I hated “In Too Deep” which I viewed as overly corny. This changed a few years ago when I saw Daryl Stuermer perform a spellbinding rendition of the song with an orchestra. Unfortunately I don’t think he ever recorded it. Luckily, IMO Martin Levac’s low key Jazz arrangement of In Too Deep is the song’s definitive version AND Levac sounds just like Phil! No more covers going forward, I promise. I follow this up with “In Too Deep’s” B-side (in the UK that is) “Do The Neurotic” which reminds listeners that Genesis could still write a kickass prog instrumental. Now, I have a feeling this is a real unpopular opinion in these parts but I prefer the single version of “Tonight, Tonight, Tonight”. The instrumental parts of TTT are too jammy and just don’t move me. Next is the live version of “Invisible Touch” from “The Way We Walk: the shorts”. Here’s something odd I can’t fully explain: I hate the original version of “Invisible Touch” but I love this live version of the track largely because it’s in a lower key. Usually when Genesis lowers a song’s key live it hurts the track but here I think it improves it. The original version just sounded too obnoxious and in-your-face to me (which is also due to the song’s production but I do think the higher key contributes.) I would be interested if anyone here who knows music better than me could weigh in on if changing a song’s key can radially change a song and/or justify why I feel this way about IT. For the rest of the tracks I just tried to create a good flow. Additionally any song that was performed at the 1987 Wembly gig uses that live version. Domino in particular was just spectacular that night!

    I’ve made an expanded CD version of Abacab. I included all of the outtakes except Me and Virgil (cuz it sucks) and the two instrumentals because I feel they do not fit into the album’s sound.


    1. Abacab

    2. No Reply At All

    3. Me and Sarah Jane

    4. Keep It Dark

    5. Who Dunnit

    6. Dodo/Lurker

    7. Man On The Corner

    8. Like It Or Not

    9. Paperlate

    10. You Might Recall

    11. Another Record


    I found that putting Who Dunnit after Keep It Dark and before Dodo drastically improves both the song and the album’s flow. The drum part of Keep It Dark flows nicely into Who Dunnit. Who dunnit now ends up being a quirky introduction to Dodo.

    There's another relatively recent interview with Nic. Not much new info but I will spoiler this just in case.

    Based on this new info here’s my prediction for what the set will be:

    1. Abacab
    2. No Son of Mine
    3. Land Of Confusion
    4. Old Medley: In The Cage-Cinema Show(instrumental)-In That Quiet Earth(snippet)-Apocalypse in 9/8-Carpet Crawlers
    5. Follow You Follow Me
    6. Home By The Sea-Second Home By The Sea
    7. (New) Duchess
    8. Firth of Fifth(solo)/I Know What I Like
    9. Mama
    10. Throwing It All Away
    11. Domino
    12. I Can’t Dance
    13. Tonight, Tonight, Tonight (short version)
    14. Invisible Touch

    Encore:

    15. Fading Lights (short version)

    16. Duke’s Intro-Turn It On Again

    Well....Nic Collins gave an interview in February where he specifically talks about rehearsing Mama, HBTS, Carpet Crawlers and......Apocalypse In 9/8.


    Said they'd rehearsed 40 songs of which about 25 made it into the final set.

    Based on this I’m going to revise my prediction. To clarify this isn’t my dream setlist this is my attempt to guess what will be played:

    1. Duke’s Intro
    2. Turn It On Again
    3. Abacab
    4. No Son Of Mine
    5. Land Of Confusion
    6. Old Medley: Dance On A Volcano-Cinema Show-In That Quiet Earth-Apocalypse in 9/8-Carpet Crawlers
    7. Follow You Follow Me
    8. Mama
    9. Duchess
    10. Home By The Sea/Second Home By The Sea
    11. Throwing It All Away
    12. Domino
    13. I Can’t Dance.
    14. Fading Lights (short version)
    15. Invisible Touch

    if u individually count each section of the old medley and both parts of Home By The Sea and Domino this makes for a total of 21 songs. When I saw Phil in 2019 he played 19 songs so I feel like this is prob an accurate amount of numbers. We also end up with at least one song (or snippet of a song) from each album from Foxtrot to We Can’t Dance.

    What is interesting is how Chester was clearly never viewed as a member of Genesis by the other guys....which is part of the reason he wasn't asked to do studio work for CAS. In my view that's a big mistake artistically, the album would have been much better with a drummer involved in the writing process. But it also backs up Chester's feeling that he was always a bit of an outsider.


    Poor guy drummed on tour for them for 15 years solid and came back for their big "comeback" tour, always put in excellent performances...and was perhaps never truly appreciated by the band members themselves.

    First off I 100% agree that they made a mistake not including Chester in CAS. He could’ve injected new energy and live drumming to their writing process. I was thinking the other day about what lineup would have revived Genesis in the late 90s then it hit me: Mike, Tony, Chester, and John Wetton on bass and vocals. Wetton’s time in King Crimson shows he’s capable of improvising meaning he could probably have fit in with genesis’s writing process and also had pop sensibilities as demonstrated by his time in Asia. This is just a fantasy as I doubt Mike would’ve been willing to just stick to the guitar. Also I’m not trying to knock Ray Wilson, who’s a great vocalist.


    Back to the Rolling Stone article, AB identifies something I’ve noticed from the article as well. Chester definitely feels unappreciated by the guys and this has resulted in him having a lot of mixed feelings of the band members. I’m sure some will say I’m wrong but my impression reading the article was that Chester thought these guys were his friends but he’s come to realize that’s not necessarily the case. Then again as other have pointed out Chester could have contributed to this divide as well

    My intention wasn’t for this conversation to get off topic I simply wanted clarification on Genesis archive’s comment that Phil used “disgusting language”. To me the f word isn’t really repulsive language (then again if someone was saying that while throwing chairs at me it would probably be more threatening) so I assumed he used worse words. I also wasn’t calling Phil a racist since I had no knowledge of the situation. Tho I want to say that folks who know better could still use racial slurs in order to hurt someone else. Now it’s been confirmed that Phil didn’t use any racial slurs so everyone relax. Regardless, if the account of phil throwing chairs is true his behavior is still reprehensible. I understand he had issues with drink and drugs but it’s been 10 years. He’s overcome those issues and he owes Chester an apology. Apparently this period of Phil’s life has been blacked out for him. Given how obsessed Phil is with press coverage I bet he has been reinformed of his past behavior. To be fair tho if in the future Phil apologizes to Chester it would probably be in private and we wouldn’t know

    There's always more to a story, it is interesting that Chester has been as honest as possible. But lets just say that Phil is like most other humans on the earth, not perfect.


    I'm not sure if it was just drinking that cause problems, Phil has been known to indulge. But the way he treated Chester was disgusting. There was indeed chairs thrown, a table turned over and some disgusting language from Phil. But as Phil once said in an anti drugs/drink commercial. Drink and Drugs can wreck lives.


    TGA

    How “disgusting” was his language? I hope he didn’t use the sort of words that destroy a reputation if you know what I mean... not that my concern in that scenario would be Phil’s reputation. Honestly the whole thing is so upsetting. From 1977-2007 Chester Thompson was 1/5th of the live Genesis experience. It unrealistic that all 5 members of the live band are perfect people and close friends but for Chester to just be thrown out like yesterday’s trash is wrong. To be clear I think Nic Collins drumming is great but double drumming has been a crucial part of live Genesis. I had hopped Nic and Chester would both participate in the reunion... oh well