Posts by Micklemus

I don't have a downer on Ray. He is a talented writer with a good voice.

The problem for me during Ray's brief stint in Genesis wasn't him at all, it was the tragically awful material that he had to work with. The band had lost Phil's arrangement skills (an often unacknowledged talent of his) along with his obvious talents as a drummer and writer, which left a series of dull, unimaginative and sometimes cringeworthy meanderings which Ray was called in late to improvise some vocals over. If he was actually at the table as a proper writer and arranger, in there at the very beginning, Calling All Stations could have sent the band in an interesting new direction. Instead the album turned out to be something that I'd be embarrassed to use as a coaster, which was a first for me in relation to Genesis.

None of this was Ray's fault though. He just wasn't properly integrated within the group and the big shame for me was that there was no second album with him (and maybe even Drennan) having a proper seat at the writing table.

I like his solo work and I think the Genesis thing with Ray was a massive missed opportunity.

Good track and nicely positioned after the sadness of '32 Doors. Interesting also that this was an evolution of a very old track (The Light) and so it must have been brought to the table when they were trying to fill out The Lamb as a double album. It doesn't seem like that to me; it stands as one of the stronger pieces on the album.

I created my own mix of the Lamb ("As It Should Have Been") with the weaker/filler material taken out. This one is still in there, as for me that Side 3 run through to Anyway is easily as strong as the best parts of Sides 1 and 2.

Shame the band didn't didn't have more of these crunchier guitar-led tracks, particularly while Steve was in it.

Sorry, I should have expressed myself more clearly. What I meant was there wouldn’t be enough commercial appeal if they played a SET of the 1976-77 kind. Most of us here would love it but the more casual Genesis listeners would not.

Quote from IWishItWouldRainDown

You can read the whole article free in the link below.

Genesis' Steve Hackett: ‘Phil Collins doesn't deserve what’s happened to him’

(Source: The Daily Telegraph)

It's a very good read, thank you for posting.

I can understand if Steve feels some frustration. The Charterhouse Trio had stronger personalities and the glue that comes with growing up together, Phil was a great peacekeeper so found his place, but Steve was much more introverted and more of an outsider, yet at the same time he had a very distinctive sound that coloured the prog years. With these dynamics I can see why the others would view him as a man of his time, almost like a hired hand. I can also understand why Tony would view him as unsuited to play the pop trio material and I doubt Steve would want to do it anyway, although I'm sure he could have taken some pieces to a new level live - e.g. Abacab, Mama, Second Home, The Brazilian.

All that said, it cuts both ways as Daryl might be an outstanding guitarist but I don't enjoy his interpretations of the band's earlier material as much as when Steve was playing. However a reunion tour with Steve playing some parts and Daryl others just wouldn't have worked.

I'm rambling. I guess I'm just saying I can understand why Steve would feel the outsider but I also understand why a reunion involving Steve would have needed Peter as well, The band couldn't have done a four piece reunion focusing on 1976-77. The die-hard fans would have loved it and I'd have been front of the queue, but it wouldn't have been appealing enough to the wider public for it to be commercially worthwhile, and so Steve gets left out.

Big shame though.

Quote from Backdrifter

Yours incorporates elements that are mentioned earlier in the thread, such as interruptions and woodland locations - the latter have certainly featured in mine.

Bit harsh of your brother there.

He's actually the most mild-mannered bloke you could come across, so his reaction was certainly out of character.

Yes you're right, there are themes here. We'll have to dig into dream interpretations and see what they reveal.

I’ve found a dream thread to resurrect because of one I had last night.

Genesis had reformed for one huge final open air gig in some strange location on the edge of a forest. Phil was in rude health, Chester was there too and the stage set was similar to 2007 but grander. Anyway, the band was absolutely on fire, playing better than ever before, and then Phil announced, “we haven’t done this in a while” and moments later the opening bars of Suppers Ready started. But then it got weird because every couple of minutes during the first half Phil would shout “hold on, hold on”’and wave everybody to a halt before starting a stand up routine - “have you heard the one about…” and so it continued with them stuttering on surreally and much to our increasing annoyance.

“He’s the guaranteed eternal sanctuary… hold on…I’ve got one for ya’ about this bloke, you’ll like this…”

That is until they eventually got to “a flower” at which point Phil marched to the drum riser and out from the wings popped Peter Gabriel. The crowd went berserk and the rest of the gig was so good it was spiritual.

At the end I was in bits from a combination of the band finishing their career as rock gods and the realisation that my phone hadn’t worked so I had no record of it. I called my brother in frustration only to be told I was a complete muppet because the show had been broadcast on TV and radio round the world.

Feck knows where that came from or what it all means but it was a truly surreal Genesis dream.

Quote from OneForTheVine

See if you can hear me cheering on your bootleg then! 😄 I would have definitely been at that show.

Enjoy your show at the Hammersmith!

It was a good gig so you chose well!

Speaking of being heard on a bootleg, when Musical Box came over on the tour where they played their favourite Genesis pieces (2018) I was a little worse for wear at the Hammersmith show and can be heard on the bootleg shouting for Invisible Touch during the intro to Cinema Show. Sorry fellow attendees.

Superb cover band, they never fail to disappoint.

Quote from Backdrifter

What you and lawnmower said.

Seeing it on stage a couple of times in 1980 it sounded good and oh look how funny Phil is jumping around and twirling an imaginary moustache. But then, I was 14. In that sense, it's very much in that category of 'Things I Thought Were Good Because You Know, I Was 14' which I'm happy to leave there.

(NB: there are some things I liked at 14 and still do).

I liked the way you put that! Bang on the money.

That’s a whole new thread in itself - things I liked at 14 but don’t now…

I have a bootleg of them playing this set at the Keswick back in 2004. Great show. Blimey that's 20 years ago already.

Sadly the wrong side of the Atlantic for me but we'll be going to the Hammersmith show.

Almost identical comment from me as from TheLawnmower. I used to really like this track when I was younger, particularly live, but now it's just annoying. It's another of those songs that Phil might describe as 'of its time' - a cheesy lyrical tale - but it hasn't aged well like their true epics. The lyrics are somewhat fromage-laden but the part the really grates on me is the instrumental section at the end. The musicianship might be great but the sound they produce is not, and that steadily climbing piano scale amongst the melee makes me wince. Perhaps its just because my hearing has changed with age, I don't know, but once upon a time this would have been about 13 for me and now I can't listen to it at all, so I'll average it out and say 7.

Quote from Henry Hamilton-Smythe

I would agree. Having said that, it is by far my favorite song on that album.

Phil and Tony have very, very different writing styles. Phil’s is much more popular. I like Tony’s much better.

Same here. As per my original post on this thread, the band was really magical to me when Steve was in it, which also happened to be when Tony spread his wings more. Phil had a point though, and I think Phil’s ability to arrange and tighten songs, to avoid the cringey bits, is not fully appreciated. That’s maybe for another thread though.

But Tony wasn’t always the best lyricist. Great with mood, scale and complexity but his lyrics weren’t always the greatest. Could be original though, I mean there can’t be many songs featuring a bread bin but he managed to tick that box as well!

Quote from Henry Hamilton-Smythe

https://faroutmagazine.co.uk/t…il-collins-leave-genesis/

Well I never knew that. I knew of his many references to “sheets of double glazing” and “undinal songs” but not this one. However he did sound bored when singing it, particularly live, and he does have a point. I mean, “snowflake drifting on the breath of a breeze” belongs more to a Keats poetry book than a rock album.

Yes the Volcano/Endos medley from Knebworth really rocked.

Lucky you for having the opportunity to see this.

I never really 'got' this track, whether the album version or live. Despite the title, it leaves me feeling pretty low and it just drones on without any particular plus points, and I’m really underwhelmed if I listen in full to Side 2 of the eponymous album with this at the end of it. It's also awash with Tony's 80s synth sounds and not much else; the very arrangement that turns me away from quite a lot of their 'pop era' material. It's not a tooth-grinder of a three piece Genesis track for me, not like Living Forever or Since I Lost You, or as tragic as anything on Calling All Stations (aka Burning All Credibility) but it is some distance from making it to my Genesis all time playlist.

7

They're alright but the ones I have are no better than the boots available for free on the Genesis Movement torrent site. If I were you, I'd save my money and go there, subject to two exceptions: The Shrine 1975 and LA Forum 1986, which until now were only ever available in MP3 streaming format online.

The Amazon CD version of the Shrine is the full show without the truly awful overdubs that resulted in the official release some years back, and as a full show it beats the numerous radio broadcast versions of The Shrine which only ran to about 45 mins. That said, the full unedited show is pretty rough round the edges in terms of performance and I can see why the band didn't release it like that. I've listened to dozens of Lamb shows and their performances were frequently patchy until the latter stages of the tour.

The LA Forum CD is a soundboard recording from a different night to the King Biscuit Flower Hour version that was used for many bootleg releases. It's good for completists but for me the early IT shows were all about the In The Cage medley that included final third of Supper's Ready, and this version of the medley isn't quite as good as the KBFH version (to my ears anyway). So it's a nice to have but I've only listened to it once.

Elsewhere I bought the Amazon CD versions of Nassau 81 (the Three Sides Live material), Chicago 78, Pittsburgh 76 (or was it Cleveland, I'd need to check) and (I think) Zurich 77. The best bootleg versions of these shows are as good as or better than the paid versions, so I would take some convincing to spend out on more.

Quote from Christian

The Cinema Show is one of my Top 5 Genesis tracks. It’s quite a good example for the prog style of the early Genesis era. They Rarely sounded heavy, technical, they always had this loose atmosphere, they sounded fresh and accessible, no matter how complicated the tracks were.

15 points

Well put and I fully agree. Other prog bands went for complexity and the music got lost in the process. Genesis retained balance and their material was stronger for it.

Great track, one of the Genesis classics for most fans I should think. It worked better live than in the studio, to my ears anyway, and the Seconds Out version is outstanding. Great as a medley piece as well. I only wish Tony could have properly emulated the Mellotron choir on later tours, but that’s personal bias because I loved what the ‘tron brought to the band’s music.

No worries! Also I think few would find themselves troubled by a particular Gabriel song intro. 🤣

Found it. It's The Roxy, 17 December 1973, late show. I've answered my own thread.