Songs I'm Afraid to Admit I Don't Like

  • I think Thick as a Brick is massively overrated, I don't really love Anderson's voice and the musicianship was subpar when compared to other Prog bands. Aqualung though, is imo a masterpiece.

    Outside of Passion Play, I don't think Tull really fits the characterization of a progressive rock band.

    They clearly have much more in common with folk hybrid bands like Strawbs, Traffic and Fairport Convention than with traditional prog bands like Yes and ELP.

  • As for Jethro Tull, I much prefer the name Robert Plant gave them: Jethro Dull.

    Ha ha ha! A little harsh though... I mean, Tull are always going to be a pretty divisive sort of act, I suppose. I like some of their stuff but on the whole I'm not familiar with anything from about 1977 onwards. For me they peaked early, I really like the first three albums and although I'm not big on bluesy stuff I do quite like the blues-inflected sound they had back then.


    By the way I'm not sure I'd accept "dullness" jibes from a member of Led Zep.

    Abandon all reason

  • I think Thick as a Brick is massively overrated, I don't really love Anderson's voice and the musicianship was subpar when compared to other Prog bands. Aqualung though, is imo a masterpiece.

    I don't mind Thick, it has its moments but on balance I'd agree it's overrated (I'd say the same about Aqualung, incidentally). I've never been bothered about the musicianship thing, it's too often a red herring.

    Abandon all reason

  • Outside of Passion Play, I don't think Tull really fits the characterization of a progressive rock band.

    They clearly have much more in common with folk hybrid bands like Strawbs, Traffic and Fairport Convention than with traditional prog bands like Yes and ELP.

    I would tend to agree with you, the general audience though doesn't seem to agree with us, perhaps due to the fact they were active in that period, nor does incidentally the prog audience. I don't know the current status but Thick as a Brick was #1 in the poll of prog albums of all times for quite some time on Progarchives. The other bands were Genesis, Yes, VdGG, Pink Floyd, King Crimson, ELP, Rush and so on. I would also suggest that Brick was by all means intended as a Prog album by Anderson.

  • I've never been bothered about the musicianship thing, it's too often a red herring.

    That is exclusively, when compared to other bands. I am really not fixated on that and it's not a pre-requisite of mine for liking an artist but when you think about other prog bands JT sound a bit rough around the edges.

  • I would tend to agree with you, the general audience though doesn't seem to agree with us, perhaps due to the fact they were active in that period, nor does incidentally the prog audience. I don't know the current status but Thick as a Brick was #1 in the poll of prog albums of all times for quite some time on Progarchives. The other bands were Genesis, Yes, VdGG, Pink Floyd, King Crimson, ELP, Rush and so on. I would also suggest that Brick was by all means intended as a Prog album by Anderson.

    Thick as a brick was intended as a spoof prog album; a send up of concept albums. I have always regarded Tull as a prog band. Not sure why anyone wouldn't really. They're not a favourite of mine though. There isn't really a template for prog rock. All those bands were very different to each other. VDGG were a little 'rough around the edges' too IMO, but unmistakably prog rock. Floyd were also not the worlds best musicians, with the exception of Gilmour. Their music was quite basic. Brilliant and very orginal, but relatively basic. Interstingly many Floyd fans don't regard them as prog rock.

  • Thick as a brick was intended as a spoof prog album; a send up of concept albums. I have always regarded Tull as a prog band. Not sure why anyone wouldn't really. They're not a favourite of mine though. There isn't really a template for prog rock. All those bands were very different to each other. VDGG were a little 'rough around the edges' too IMO, but unmistakably prog rock. Floyd were also not the worlds best musicians, with the exception of Gilmour. Their music was quite basic. Brilliant and very orginal, but relatively basic. Interstingly many Floyd fans don't regard them as prog rock.

    I would think of high standard of musicianship as a basic requirement for a prog band, however, the example you provided with VdGG and PF make a perfectly valid point of how it isn't necessarily the case.

    Edited once, last by Fabrizio ().

  • I sense a hole opening up in front of me but my take on prog has always been that it's adventurous, an attempt to do something beyond the accepted norm, a response in part to what was popular in the charts at the time (the time being the late sixties). And it seems to me that the movement (if it can be so called) was inspired directly by the pioneering work of the later albums by The Beatles. I imagine very few of the musicians in prog rock would classify as virtuoso - indeed, the conceit that someone needed to be a master of their craft seemed to be the undoing of prog when so many bands lost favour with the masses when punk came along.


    "We were punks, you know," Jon Anderson once said. The quote may inspire hilarity but I can see where he's coming from. When prog rock began, it was as much a response to the current musical climate as punk was.

  • I sense a hole opening up in front of me but my take on prog has always been that it's adventurous, an attempt to do something beyond the accepted norm, a response in part to what was popular in the charts at the time (the time being the late sixties). And it seems to me that the movement (if it can be so called) was inspired directly by the pioneering work of the later albums by The Beatles. I imagine very few of the musicians in prog rock would classify as virtuoso - indeed, the conceit that someone needed to be a master of their craft seemed to be the undoing of prog when so many bands lost favour with the masses when punk came along.


    "We were punks, you know," Jon Anderson once said. The quote may inspire hilarity but I can see where he's coming from. When prog rock began, it was as much a response to the current musical climate as punk was.

    Yeah, I've always made a similar argument to fans of punk music over the years, met with reluctant acceptance through to "**** off mate, no way!"


    Numerous punk icons from John Lydon, Hugh Cornwell and Jaz Coleman expressed a liking for some progressive bands; The likes of Hawkwind, VDGG, Amon Duul, Neu, Soft Machine and even some early Genesis. Phil Collins was said to have been approached by a nervous Rat Scabies from The Damned in an airport, who claimed to be a great admirer of his talents as a drummer.


    Punk does have something in common with prog IMO. It was just ironic that the latter was so unceremoniously replaced by the former.

  • In line with the above I’m gonna be equally expansive...


    Songs I’m afraid to admit I don’t like:


    Everything, and I mean everything, after ‘Duke’.


    Actually, even on ‘Duke’ there were worrying signs of the direction of travel. The album is flawed by the inclusion of the two Collins’ numbers: a sickly double spoonful of ‘Manilow Magic’ sitting alongside the hidden 'Duke suite'. But however strong the urge is to reach for your tonsils, the latter is the band’s farewell to prog rock and in this sense, ‘Duke’ is the final chapter that came mid-way through the book. From this point on the band would spend their career pulling a ‘Silence of the Lambs’ act, anxiously sewing themselves a pop music suit out of whatever musical scraps they had left.


    First up was ‘Abacab’. A blare of horns announced its arrival in 1981. Yup, horns; as in ‘Earth, Wind and Fire’! Much like a trumpeting fart that is instantly regretted the moment you discover how wet it is, ‘Abacab’ dribbled off the vinyl with that embarrassed look that geriatrics reserve for when they’ve finally lost control of their sphincters. No wonder this material was roundly booed whenever performed in the aftermath of its release; yet the record execs, with a nod to Roger Waters, simply held their noses and whooped: “Welcome to the Machine, boys!” They were well aware that new, younger fans had arrived on the back of the success of ‘Face Value’. The ‘Philly boys’ (as someone on this forum has proudly declared himself) were here: the dumbed down generation with their school leaver exams that awarded them a point for simply spelling their own name correctly. They were willing fodder for easily digestible musical hooks and the band did not disappoint them. Sic biscuitus disintigrat!


    If the band lost control of their bowels with ‘Abacab’, by the time ‘Genesis’ was released, they at least had enough of their marbles left to recognise that their glory days were over.

    “Let us relive our lives in what we tell you,” they croon in ‘Home by the Sea’.

    I’d have happily re-lived the glory days with them if only they’d called it a day and bloody well checked themselves into a home by the sea. But no; they limped on with songs like, ‘Mama.’ But in the naked democracy of the recording studio, who but a half-wit could fail to prefer the symphonic grandeur of early Genesis over that means-tested pauper: a song which may as well be ground out on an organ, accompanied as it is by a monkey with a pantomime laugh.

    (Have the ‘Philly boys’ started trolling me yet? I’m conscious of the fact that this is no ‘prog rock’ forum)


    The descent into amateur dramatics wasn’t to end here, however. How far from the lofty heights of ‘The Cinema Show’ would the band be prepared to fall? The answer is apparently, ‘Illegal Alien’ and that stick-on moustache. With this Chas ‘n’ Dave style novelty song ringing in our ears all we need now is a takeaway curry and a hand-job in a Tesco car park and that’s the great British Friday night out sorted!


    Then comes ‘Invisible Touch’ and we get more of the same. ‘Salmacis’ this most definitely is not, as grammar school Phil is clearly more at home in ham videos monkeying about in a flasher mac. Those old enough to remember ‘Game for a Laugh’, might be forgiven for expecting Jeremy Beadle to suddenly leap out rather than anything remotely connected to Charterhouse. Oh, come back Gabriel, all is forgiven... even your silly psychedelic excess!


    And so to ‘We Can’t Dance’, where the energetic clowning has now given way to an arthritic walk aptly reflected in the music. With Phil’s solo career in full flow, it wouldn’t be long now before he would hobble off into the sunset. Would we finally be spared this long drawn out death? Sadly, no! The band lurches on in the blind hope that if Miss Ellie from ‘Dallas’ can hoodwink the world into believing she’s the same person in 84-85 as she was in the previous 7 series, then Ray Wilson can pull off something similar. He can’t and we’re left to squirm through a final album before finally, finally the band is allowed to rest in peace.


    “Slow build, slower decay," is how Peter Gabriel summarises everything and sadly, this is a mouth of decay containing no gold fillings. Yet, what a legacy nonetheless! A whole decade of superlative music throughout the 70s. Not even the Floyd managed to pull that off!


    RIP Genesis 1970-80. Et in Arcadia ego

    ~ My talents may not be obvious but they are always...always...delicious! ~

  • Yeah, I've always made a similar argument to fans of punk music over the years, met with reluctant acceptance through to "**** off mate, no way!"


    Numerous punk icons from John Lydon, Hugh Cornwell and Jaz Coleman expressed a liking for some progressive bands; The likes of Hawkwind, VDGG, Amon Duul, Neu, Soft Machine and even some early Genesis. Phil Collins was said to have been approached by a nervous Rat Scabies from The Damned in an airport, who claimed to be a great admirer of his talents as a drummer.


    Punk does have something in common with prog IMO. It was just ironic that the latter was so unceremoniously replaced by the former.

    There's a great story from Nick Launay who worked on the Flowers Of Romance album by PiL (great band, much better than The Sex Pistols in my opinion) where he brought about a meeting between Phil Collins and John Lydon over lunch. The two got on famously, much to everyone's surprise: The Curious Tale Of Phil and Mr Rotten

  • There's a great story from Nick Launay who worked on the Flowers Of Romance album by PiL (great band, much better than The Sex Pistols in my opinion) where he brought about a meeting between Phil Collins and John Lydon over lunch. The two got on famously, much to everyone's surprise: The Curious Tale Of Phil and Mr Rotten

    Along those same lines, I recall Phil saying in an interview how he cheered on and agreed when the punks slagged off some of the old guard bands like ELP and Pink Floyd as bloated and pretentious. But then was taken aback when anyone included Genesis on that list of disparaged bands .

  • In line with the above I’m gonna be equally expansive...


    Songs I’m afraid to admit I don’t like:


    Everything, and I mean everything, after ‘Duke’.

    Y'know I'm almost with you in that I recognise that all the best stuff was done in the 70s.


    In some ways I'd even go further because I can't find anything on Duke I love.


    It's just I think that Side 1 of Shapes is a brief return to form. And there are a handful of singles (fingers of one hand!) spread over the last five albums that I wouldn't skip.

  • There's a great story from Nick Launay who worked on the Flowers Of Romance album by PiL (great band, much better than The Sex Pistols in my opinion) where he brought about a meeting between Phil Collins and John Lydon over lunch. The two got on famously, much to everyone's surprise: The Curious Tale Of Phil and Mr Rotten

    I think a lot of the "punk killed prog" anti-prog nonsense came from the media rather than actual musicians, who largely tend to be very fair to each other.


    I embraced punk but my enduring love from that time is the post-punk new wave stuff and yes, PiL are up there with the Banshees and Magazine. I'm seeing PiL this month at my local club venue, Inverness Ironworks.

    Abandon all reason

  • Y'know I'm almost with you in that I recognise that all the best stuff was done in the 70s.


    In some ways I'd even go further because I can't find anything on Duke I love.


    It's just I think that Side 1 of Shapes is a brief return to form. And there are a handful of singles (fingers of one hand!) spread over the last five albums that I wouldn't skip.

    I tend to be a 70-80 kind of fan myself but there are some songs after that period I truly love, after all, it's not like they couldn't write songs anymore or their style didn't shine through here and there. I would say that for my taste, my attitude towards the band changed as of Abacab, while previous to that I generally loved the albums with the odd songs I didn't care for, in the 80s, I really didn't enjoy the whole albums but I was still able to find the odd songs that grabbed me. I often wondered if I had become a fan, had I come across the band in the 80s and I can't really answer that but I somehow doubt it.

  • I would say that for my taste, my attitude towards the band changed as of Abacab,

    I think that's good. If the fans of the seventies stuff loved Abacab just as much as Selling England By The Pound, then I think Genesis would've questioned their own ability to move with the times. Remember, Genesis felt Abacab was such a radical shift from the past that they almost changed the name of the group.


    As someone who did discover Genesis in the eighties, I was much more accepting of the changes in their music when I looked back over their career. Had I been with the band from the start, I have no doubt that I would have stopped listening to them at a certain point, because that's what happens with most fans.

  • I think that's good. If the fans of the seventies stuff loved Abacab just as much as Selling England By The Pound, then I think Genesis would've questioned their own ability to move with the times. Remember, Genesis felt Abacab was such a radical shift from the past that they almost changed the name of the group.


    As someone who did discover Genesis in the eighties, I was much more accepting of the changes in their music when I looked back over their career. Had I been with the band from the start, I have no doubt that I would have stoppedthose listening to them at a certain point, because that's what happens with most fans.

    I was one of those old gits from the 70s. However, I did get a few earlier cd's from the 80s. I was not a fan of these changes, because I loved Genesis as it was back then and moved to bands such as Marillion to get that similar sound. Though Marillion now has changed their sound quite a lot over the years.

  • I was one of those old gits from the 70s. However, I did get a few earlier cd's from the 80s. I was not a fan of these changes, because I loved Genesis as it was back then and moved to bands such as Marillion to get that similar sound. Though Marillion now has changed their sound quite a lot over the years.

    Yes, Marillion were very much a tribute act to that era of music, I felt, what with the album covers and Fish with his makeup and costumes. They never appealed to me but when Steve Hogarth took over, I gave them a listen and I loved what I heard. I think Brave is a fabulous album.