Why so little Genesis Live material with Gabriel?.

    This question has always been in the back of my mind but the amount of live stuff available from the early days seems like scraps at best. What with the Genesis live album and the archives release With The Lamb and other tracks we seem To have been very poorly served over the years. Why is this?, every artist of any note seems to be releasing stuff (take for example Neil Young who seems to be releasing loads of early acoustic stuff and has three more releases scheduled). We Genesis fans get nothing at all, To be honest it really is getting to me this lack of appreciation that fans want to hear these things. Surely the group took recording equipment to their shows back in the day as other artists were doing?. The lack of such releases or re evaluation of the back catalogue on Blu Ray audio for example seems like a real kick in the teeth to the fans such as myself who gladly would part with money.

    Quote from Wayne

    Surely the group took recording equipment to their shows back in the day as other artists were doing?

    Why "surely"? I dispute the notion that other acts were doing this in significant numbers, plus you say "every other artist of any note" - really, every?


    At the time you're referring to Genesis were gradually becoming a band with a growing cult following in the UK and were barely known in the US. Even better-known acts didn't routinely have shows filmed. Along with music on TV generally, concert footage was sparse. Genesis would have to scrape together disparate bits and pieces to get anything approaching something worthy of release and even then it'd very unlikely pass their strict quality control requirements.


    This isn't a case of "yet again Genesis fans are screwed", it's more a reflection of how it was generally back then.

    Abandon all reason

    Like 1

    I take your point but even acts like Joni Mitchell were being recording on reel to reel tape to a satisfactory level before even making it. King Crimson weren’t exactly massive (albeit significantly larger than Genesis I admit) but they took great pains to record lots of their live performances for future release. On the other hand Genesis as we know became a massive band from the late 70s onwards and we haven’t had much to listen to from WAW onwards. I do think they could have at least released the BBC live recordings on the Duke tour which would be most welcome - but once again nothing!. You surely would agree that we haven’t had much at all over the years?.


    Yes released a box set of full concerts a few years back which although repetitive In content was very welcome, I wish there was something similar from Genesis - I don’t understand why we haven’t had multiple live releases akin to what Yes / Crimson and Caravan have achieved?.


    Maybe is just a simple case if they can’t be bothered with it , seems to me that’s the case to be honest. I’d rather have something from the glory days than a blu ray of the recent tour (as good as that was) any day!.


    it would have been great if there was a Grateful Dead mentality back in the day where they allowed professional recording equipment lugged in by the fans to the shows!, that has provided some excellent recordings and was very forward thinking at a time when most fans were having to sneak recording equipment into the gigs.

    Edited 2 times, last by Wayne ().

    I'm sure I've made similar laments on here before but have made my peace to some extent that whatever riches the band or their archivists are sitting on are theirs, not ours, and further that they don't owe us a thing. Yes, it's at variance with many of the other bands I follow who have seemingly inexhaustible seams of live and rare material that they release with abandon.


    Something I'd dearly love to see/hear is rehearsals of songs that didn't make the cut for tours - such Do The Neurotic.


    And there was all that talk of a big archive project and a video of someone with a huge box of tapes that led nowhere as far as I know.


    We have what we have. Every now and then I'll think of this topic and maybe hope that somewhere along the way more material will see the light of day. But if it doesn't that's fine.

    As well as the live stuff that hasn’t seen the light of the day (there must be some), as I said earlier why the band don’t look at re issuing all the albums on bluray audio which there is a big market for confounds me. We haven’t had one super deluxe edition of any of the classic albums - Black Sabbath have so far released 4 / Paul McCartney has also released a few. Even Lesser know acts like Caravan / Al Stewart / Wishbone Ash have or are releasing massive box sets with extra material.


    The annoying thing for me is there probably is some marvellous stuff sat there waiting for someone to take the initiative - pity no one seems to take any. I can only drool at the prospect of seeing a package coming through the post in 2025 with Selling England - containing a 6 LP vinyl with original album over two LPs at 1/2 speed mastering / 2 LPs of demos and outtakes/studio run throughs and two LPs of a live concert. Also the contents would include a tour poster / hard back book and a blu ray of the album at 24/96 or 24/192 and accompanying live footage of that era. I can dream!!.

    Edited 2 times, last by Wayne ().

    Like 2
    Quote from Wayne

    You surely would agree that we haven’t had much at all over the years?.


    I don’t understand why we haven’t had multiple live releases akin to what Yes / Crimson and Caravan have achieved?.


    Maybe is just a simple case if they can’t be bothered with it , seems to me that’s the case to be honest.

    I do agree there isn't much. But I don't agree that they can't be bothered. I think it's simply not their way, which isn't the same thing. I'm also wary of comparisons with what other bands do - these other artists doing it doesn't necessarily make it the right thing or good, or something Genesis should look to.


    I maintain that a big part of the reason for so little PG-era footage is that despite whatever examples of other acts filming stuff, it just wasn't the norm by a long way.

    Abandon all reason

    Like 1

    There is a comprehensive list of recordings that Genesis do possess.

    They were discovered in a case at 'The Farm'.

    This dates from 1973 onwards. It is somewhere on this forum.

    I remember seeing it a few years ago.

    Quote from Backdrifter

    Film footage?

    more than likely audio which surely must be a good potential earner for the band, I mean probably 95% of those who come to this site would buy it!!. Which to me suggests they either don’t want to release it, they don’t think the quality is good enough for release sound wise or just feel there is no need to expand the catalogue which is Spartan in content at best ( my opinion ). I think the audio from all the live video Material in the past is good enough to release?, especially the one from In concert where the roadies are setting up the stage and has Bill Bruford drumming. A full release of the audio on that would be tremendous.

    Quote from bromleybruce

    There is a comprehensive list of recordings that Genesis do possess.

    They were discovered in a case at 'The Farm'.

    This dates from 1973 onwards. It is somewhere on this forum.

    I remember seeing it a few years ago.

    Yep. Photos and details were circulated many years ago (I seem to recall on the original Genesis forum) and it was said that (I think) Geoff Callingham and Nick Davis were working on some of them. If memory serves, they later decided that it was a supreme amount of effort for a comparatively substandard product, and so the idea of a series of 'official bootlegs' was shelved.


    Big shame, as I think the people who would be receptive to this material are not overly interested in whether the sound quality is like a contemporary 'in your room' recording. They're interested in these pieces as collectibles and time capsules, and would snap them up if the quality was only half-decent. I do however get the cost-benefit angle though, as the engineering and production costs would far outweigh the likely returns.


    Would be nice to see more finding their way to decent engineers who could do a labour of love thing and get the recordings restored and onto the Genesis Movement. Quite a few appeared this way, but I'm sure there must be more, plus more engineers who could do sound restorations to the standards set by TM and others a few years ago.

    I think it is fairly hit and miss about artists getting recorded live during the early 70s. You would think a band like The Who would have lots of recordings after they released Who's Next, but I know of only one properly recorded gig from that tour (of which only bits and pieces have been released) and also essentially nothing from the 1972 shows.


    To properly record a gig at the time usually involved a mobile studio, which might not be what the band or the label could or was willing to invest in during the early years of their career.


    I think Genesis is pretty well represented in terms of live recordings from the earlier years. We have Genesis Live from the Foxtrot tour, the Rainbow gig from the Selling England tour, and the Lamb show. Admittedly there are missing songs and some rerecording that limits these releases. Still one song per tour for the last 3 albums with Gabriel is decent compared to other bands at a similar level of popularity at the time.

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    The cassettes that Geoff shows Bill Macormick (former official Genesis webmaster). Are not what live albums are made of. Genesis Live, Seconds Out and Three Sides Live along with all official live releases by the band. Come from Multitrack tape reels. These can be played in a professional studio and levels of instruments can be altered to sound right.


    The cassettes Geoff has/had have all now been transferred onto Hard drives. These are in stereo and were only for the band to listen to the previous nights performance. Not for live release.


    Multitrack recording facilities / Filming back in the 1970's was very very expensive. The band simply could not afford this luxury, and the record company would not always provide the money either.


    The notion that Genesis is sitting on mountains of archive material is just pure fantasy. Yes there is stuff in the archives, but not mountains of it.


    Any live box set or album or film, still requires a budget from the management / record company in order to start the remastering, preservation work and other stuff required to bring the live box set/album/film to market.


    I hope this clarifies things,


    TGA

    Quote from Micklemus

    Big shame, as I think the people who would be receptive to this material are not overly interested in whether the sound quality is like a contemporary 'in your room' recording. They're interested in these pieces as collectibles and time capsules, and would snap them up if the quality was only half-decent. I do however get the cost-benefit angle though, as the engineering and production costs would far outweigh the likely returns.

    Look around on the internet and that includes Ebay, the amount of recordings being SOLD for MONEY would put me off. Then the amount of recordings (sound board cassettes), being given away freely.


    Would in our opinion spook the most richest of record labels. That and the fact people have no respect these days, they'll copy or upload onto Youtube. As we found with videos from the Blue, Red, Green boxsets. Annoying when like most people, we brought ours with cold hard cash, that we had earned.


    Maybe that's why such a project has stalled, who knows.


    TGA

    Quote from The_Genesis_Archive

    The cassettes Geoff has/had have all now been transferred onto Hard drives. These are in stereo and were only for the band to listen to the previous nights performance. Not for live release.

    Sounds ideal for some sort of subscription model where you get a couple of new releases each month. Not for professionally packaged CDs to sit next to Trick and Duke at the local record store. I know I'd buy in, and enjoy it warts and all, and if I would then I assume a lot of other fans would. Of course my assumption might be wrong, and I know this kind of stuff isn't Genesis' style, and I know the material is theirs to do with as they please. But it would be really interesting.