GENESIS: The "Foxtrot" release date mystery - solved!

1st Official Post
    • Official Post

    For years, 6 October was stated as the release date of Foxtrot.

    For quite a while we have been aware that this date is WRONG. Since then we were looking for hints and proof for another, earlier date in September, which was more realistic.


    Recently, we (the German Genesis Fanclub) intensified our research on that topic, together with some experts like Mic Smith and Phil Morris among others. We can now say: Foxtrot was released 15 September 1972.


    We have written an article about our findings, that you can find here:


    https://www.genesis-news.com/c…-mystery-solved-s856.html


    I am not really an expert and to be honest it's not that important for me when albums are exactly released, but this is of course a work done by dedicated fans - so thanks! It was nevertheless an interesting read!

    Wikipedia reports what the most popular books write.

    It should be the Christmas Records that should correct the official date.

    So even if wrong I think it is historically correct to report October 6th. :/

    Edited once, last by rkive: For example years ago, when It gave birth at home the exact date was not recorded at the Registry Office. ().

    • Official Post
    Quote from rkive

    So even if wrong I think it is historically correct to report October 6th. :/

    erm .... what?

    Wikipedia is not a bunch of 10 people or something. The data stated in articles is based on reference. Clearly now it's different than it used to be before.

    6 Ocotber was wrong 30 years ago, 20 years ago, ten years ago and is also wrong now.

    German Wikipedia has already been changed based on the new facts.,


    Most books are (sadly) full of mistakes when it comes to release dates and gig dates. Even Gabriel's official site has a couple of sunday releases ....

    I read the article on Foxtrot by Wiki.de, but to say that the source is Genesis News it's in my opinion self-referential.


    For example, I know the article written on Wiki.it was written by a collaborator of an Italian Genesis Forum. :/

    Quote from rkive

    I read the article on Foxtrot by Wiki.de, but to say that the source is Genesis News it's in my opinion self-referential.


    For example, I know the article written on Wiki.it was written by a collaborator of an Italian Genesis Forum. :/

    Isn't every article on Wikipedia in effect "self-referential"? As well as the evidence the German article provides to back up its conclusion (all too often missing from Wiki entries) see also the separately posted article on The Movement website which independently came up with the same date. And also, crucially, clearly explains why 6 October is wrong. 15 September is correct.

    Quote from rkive

    Wikipedia reports what the most popular books write.

    It should be the Christmas Records that should correct the official date.

    So even if wrong I think it is historically correct to report October 6th. :/

    I assume you meant Charisma, not Christmas? :)


    The problem is universal (a pun, in effect) as many record companies have been taken over during the years, and the official data often goes missing as old offices are cleared out. I think this has happened twice with Charisma, Virgin took them over, then Virgin were taken over.


    Decca were taken over by Polygram, and they in turn by Universal Music, who managed to lose literally hundreds of multi-track master tapes in a fire in around 2008, but the Polygram take-over in 1980 and the closure of Decca's offices and studio in West Hampstead (Now a rehearsal room for English National Opera) mean the loss of official sales records for several major artists, including the Rolling Stones, Moody Blues, and early Bowie. For most, I guess, the release dates were a matter of record elsewhere, but I guess early Genesis weren't big enough to garner attention for those.

    Ian


    Putting the old-fashioned Staffordshire plate in the dishwasher!

    Like 2
    Quote from foxfeeder

    I assume you meant Charisma, not Christmas? :)


    The problem is universal (a pun, in effect) as many record companies have been taken over during the years, and the official data often goes missing as old offices are cleared out. I think this has happened twice with Charisma, Virgin took them over, then Virgin were taken over.


    Decca were taken over by Polygram, and they in turn by Universal Music, who managed to lose literally hundreds of multi-track master tapes in a fire in around 2008, but the Polygram take-over in 1980 and the closure of Decca's offices and studio in West Hampstead (Now a rehearsal room for English National Opera) mean the loss of official sales records for several major artists, including the Rolling Stones, Moody Blues, and early Bowie. For most, I guess, the release dates were a matter of record elsewhere, but I guess early Genesis weren't big enough to garner attention for those.

    Errata Corrige: Charisma not Christmas. :(

    • Official Post
    Quote from rkive

    Sorry I'm a lazy man, but how did Foxtrot's October 6th date come up? :/

    Although not 100% sure - it probably due to some book publications, i.e. Gallo. I think he just took the chart entry and estimated release was a week earlier. From there, it went the way it went. Basically, they never took record of those things in the early days. So there was little or no reference - this was long before the internet anyway...

    Maybe because September 28th 1972, was the date of the famous Dublin concert, where PG wore the fox mask with the red dress, to launch the album.


    So the next week October 6, the release date was calculated. :/

    • Official Post

    To launch the album? Well, I wouldn’t put it that way. Either way, 6 October was never correct.

    • Official Post
    Quote from rkive

    I would see no other reason to dress like the fox-headed woman on the album cover. :/

    It sounds like this was a part of a large scale promotion plan. It wasn't. First, Genesis were not a big band at the time and things were more or less improvised. Second, it's quite obvious this idea came to Gabriel's mind spontaneously. He didn't even tell the others. So, by no means this has something to do with a CONCRETE release date. Of course it served the purpose.

    Quote from mortussi

    Wikipedia says what the most popular books write.

    I believe Christmas Records that should correct the official date.

    As I allude to above, it's unlikely Charisma are in a position to do so, the sales records and release details will likely have been lost during 2 subsequent takeovers, plus Charisma, as-is currently, probably don't care. It's just a label that is part of a much bigger faceless corporation.

    Ian


    Putting the old-fashioned Staffordshire plate in the dishwasher!

    Quote from rkive

    I would see no other reason to dress like the fox-headed woman on the album cover. :/

    The original idea of the fox head and red dress came from Charisma, either Paul Conroy or Glen Coulson, I can't remember which atm. They suggested that on the forthcoming tour someone - not one of the band - should appear on stage in costume to promote the new album. I can't help thinking this was at least partially inspired by Wishbone Ash who had released Argus a few months before and had a guy dressed as the watcher from the album cover standing on the side of the stage briefly at their gigs. Gabriel concluded that if anyone was going to do the dressing up it might as well be him and next thing PG in the fox head was on the front cover of Melody Maker and their fee doubled overnight, which no doubt made it easier to swallow for the rest of the band.


    But back to the Dublin gig. Remember that Genesis were the support band on the tour, if anyone was doing a big push for their new album it was Lindisfarne, who were at that time streets ahead of Genesis in terms of commercial success, having had the biggest selling album in the UK in 1972.

    I agree with Genesis News, that Foxtrot's release date is definitely September.

    Charisma Records was acquired by Universal (Virgin) which only gives information about the Remastered album.:/