Definitive Edition Remasters question: was a boxset ever released?

http://www.dusk.it/genesis_edicola.htm

Maybe a DIY product from Sorrisi Canzoni TV magazine?

From what I've read the 1994 remaster cds sound the closest to the original editions but I think it's missing WCD.

P.S. Maybe this Genesis News topic explains better...

Which CD remastering was the best for each album?

My "perfect" assortment uses the 1994 DER's of A Trick of the Tail, Wind and Wuthering, Duke, and Abacab, with the 2007 remixes of Three Sides Live up through Calling All Stations and And Then There Were Three.

I really like the 2007 remixes of Trespass through Selling England by the Pound, and though there are a few errors on Foxtrot that bug me, it's not enough to kick it out of the club. The Foxtrot DER is really good too, in case those problems are too much. Likewise, if the extra drums on Trespass bother you the DER is miles ahead of the original CD version but the same original mix.

I'm currently re-discovering the original CD mix of The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway, so it is my current go-to version. Once again the DER is really good too, and the 2007 remix is nice, but some the changes bug me and this is the one album in the entire catalog I think I prefer the grittier sound of the original mix or the DER more than the pristine sound on the remix.

Quote from rkive

From what I've read the 1994 remaster cds sound the closest to the original editions but I think it's missing WCD.

In 1994 there was no need to remaster an album which was released in 1991. At that time the original version of WCD was available everywhere. Plus the main reason for digital remasters was to get albums from the vinyl era out on CD. All albums up to 3SL were originally only released on vinyl so a digital remaster was needed to serve the market for CDs. Everything post 3SL had original releases on vinyl and CD.

Quote from WinstonWolf

My "perfect" assortment uses the 1994 DER's of A Trick of the Tail, Wind and Wuthering, Duke, and Abacab, with the 2007 remixes of Three Sides Live up through Calling All Stations and And Then There Were Three.

I really like the 2007 remixes of Trespass through Selling England by the Pound, and though there are a few errors on Foxtrot that bug me, it's not enough to kick it out of the club. The Foxtrot DER is really good too, in case those problems are too much. Likewise, if the extra drums on Trespass bother you the DER is miles ahead of the original CD version but the same original mix.

I'm currently re-discovering the original CD mix of The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway, so it is my current go-to version. Once again the DER is really good too, and the 2007 remix is nice, but some the changes bug me and this is the one album in the entire catalog I think I prefer the grittier sound of the original mix or the DER more than the pristine sound on the remix.

I've posted this elsewhere, but I'm currently in the process of obtaining the original vinyl releases of the Genesis albums. So far I have ATOTT, W&W, ATTWT, Abacab and IT. And IMO for these that I have so far, ATOTT, W&W and IT sound much better than the remixes, but for ATTWT and Abacab it's a trade-off: In the remixes, the sound is definitely brighter and clearer, with a great balance - especially in the half speed versions. BUT, IMO the remixes in many cases lose the 'magic' that the band achieved in the original mix, with certain sounds being different, effects different or even certain sounds straight up missing! The originals are richer and warmer-and have more of what I call an 'analogue presence'- especially the drums are much more powerful, whereas in the remixes they are sadly quite buried and in some cases, almost inaudible beneath the loudness of the other instruments. Another difference between the 2007 remixes compared to the originals-at least on vinyl is that they are cut not from tape, but from the digital file for these songs-and it's generally understood that you don't get that sense of 'analogue richness' from an album cut from a digital file, as compared to an original-cut directly from the analogue master tapes. Basically if one wants to get the most out of vinyl, it won't do much good to listen to something digitally sourced in that format. So I guess that's a more technical reason for why I've found I'm preferring the originals.

Although I acknowledge all of that is mostly just if one is listening on vinyl - as opposed to CD. But what I'm really saying is I understand the whole "re-discovery" idea!

At the end of the day, I suppose it really comes down to the preference of the listener:

Would you like to hear ATTWT with the drums being more punchy and powerful? Or would you like a brighter and more balanced sound (even though the drums are much weaker in most songs)?

Would you like to hear the original mix and effects in each of the songs on Invisible Touch? Or are you ok with trading a brighter, more expanded sound with several effects/instruments being changed or even missing (like certain synthesizer sounds in The Brazilian)?

I am of the same mindset as others on here; I very much enjoy the half speed vinyl releases of the PG era albums, so I will probably stick with those. IMO those are where the remix process really did some good. What I would REALLY have liked is if they released the '94 DERs on vinyl, cos I really enjoyed those - or perhaps even if they did a remaster of the originals now on vinyl. If they did that using the original mixes, I would be first in line to buy them all!

I've never really gotten too far into vinyl, though ironically the one album I used to own was And Then There Were Three and I thought it sounded terrible on both vinyl and the original CD for being inexplicably thin-sounding yet cluttered at the same time. The 2007 remix was the first time that particular album was anywhere near the same sonic quality as the rest of the catalog in my opinion...

I'll also add that I'm glad that there are so many options for people to collect and versions to prefer. Every format and every version brings something different to the table and offers some subtle and not so subtle variations on every album.

Quote from WinstonWolf

I've never really gotten too far into vinyl, though ironically the one album I used to own was And Then There Were Three and I thought it sounded terrible on both vinyl and the original CD for being inexplicably thin-sounding yet cluttered at the same time. The 2007 remix was the first time that particular album was anywhere near the same sonic quality as the rest of the catalog in my opinion...

I'll also add that I'm glad that there are so many options for people to collect and versions to prefer. Every format and every version brings something different to the table and offers some subtle and not so subtle variations on every album.

I agree about ATTWT. It’s universally known among fans that the album historically has always sounded tinny and washed out. It has to be the way the album was mixed because the albums on either side, Wind and Wuthering and Duke, sound good, especially Duke always sounds fantastic. It always drives me a little crazy because I think the songs on the album are really strong for the most part. If the album was given the TLC it deserved in 1978 it would have sounded great, but I think it was rushed into production. The album cover proves that. Anyway, the remix definitely helps. Songs like Undertow and Deep in the Motherlode sound amazing on the 2007 boxed set.

Quote from WinstonWolf

I've never really gotten too far into vinyl, though ironically the one album I used to own was And Then There Were Three and I thought it sounded terrible on both vinyl and the original CD for being inexplicably thin-sounding yet cluttered at the same time. The 2007 remix was the first time that particular album was anywhere near the same sonic quality as the rest of the catalog in my opinion...

I'll also add that I'm glad that there are so many options for people to collect and versions to prefer. Every format and every version brings something different to the table and offers some subtle and not so subtle variations on every album.

Quote from Liquid Len

I agree about ATTWT. It’s universally known among fans that the album historically has always sounded tinny and washed out. It has to be the way the album was mixed because the albums on either side, Wind and Wuthering and Duke, sound good, especially Duke always sounds fantastic. It always drives me a little crazy because I think the songs on the album are really strong for the most part. If the album was given the TLC it deserved in 1978 it would have sounded great, but I think it was rushed into production. The album cover proves that. Anyway, the remix definitely helps. Songs like Undertow and Deep in the Motherlode sound amazing on the 2007 boxed set.

Re: the highlighted from both of you here, I guess I didn't think about that! Perhaps the reason I was less happy with the sound of ATTWT over the years is simply cos it wasn't mixed very well to begin with. I agree it always did sound abit...harsh in the high end and messy in general, in just about every version I've heard. And I also agree it's odd that ATOTT and W&W sound great, and then this one seems to drop-off from a production quality standpoint.

I also do agree that Undertow sounds abit better in the 2007 remix, the toms have much more tonal depth and the low range is much deeper-really giving it a fuller sound. However though, the compression used in the remix again buries the drums once those louder synths come in, to the point where they're almost inaudible. In the Original vinyl the toms do sound flatter, but overall the drums punch thru everything clearly, all the way thru. But the low range is abit weaker. Like I said, it's ultimately a personal preference-based trade off!

Quote from Eclipse

I can't find the definitive edition remasters available consistently in none of the music streaming services. Spotify has some, but in most cases the Remix are actually being played, even though the file tag mentions "1994 edition remaster", in the case of Selling England by the Pound, for example.

And, to complete the tragedy, until some weeks ago the original mixes (but non remastered) WERE AVAILABLE in youtube music, officially in the band's page, and recently they REMOVED them from there! Only the 2007/2008 remixes are there!

So this ended any hope for me that either the original mixes or the definitive edition remasters (or any non remix version) will ever be featured in those streaming services. Very sad.

Yeah I noticed that change too...

Well, you could always get the DERs on CD (they're easy to find and inexpensive), upload them to iTunes-or whatever if you don't have an iPhone-and just play them from your phone that way.

I know it's not streaming, but that's how I listen to ALL my music. I have over 3500 songs on my iTunes, and I just tell Siri what to play. I don't actually like streaming music, cos I have to get thru songs I may not like as much every few songs-and then there's also ads (if you're not paying for the service, which is a whole nother point about streaming)....

I’ve always been a big fan of listening through discographies from start to finish. I feel like that is the most enjoyable way to listen to music. I do that with movies and tv shows as well. Go from end to end. I’m a bit of a completist.

Quote from Liquid Len

I’ve always been a big fan of listening through discographies from start to finish. I feel like that is the most enjoyable way to listen to music. I do that with movies and tv shows as well. Go from end to end. I’m a bit of a completist.

Can one be "a bit of a completist"? Pedantry aside, in the case of Genesis there will always be those who avoid - at least - FGTR and CAS. I find that a rather pleasing constriction of the bookends. For what it's worth, I find it more rewarding to play in anniversary date order. (Whilst having to tuck in FGTR by other anniversaries, owing to the uncertainty over its release date. (I play half of the total content between Greenslade's birth and death dates.))