Trespass

    We had a CAS thread which made me think it would be nice to have a dedicated thread for each album and I went back to the beginning and started a FGTR thread with the intention of moving chronologically on through to WCD. So here is the Trespass thread.


    I think I'm right in saying this is the remaining one of the three studio albums to have a one-off line-up, the other two having been covered in the above-mentioned threads.


    Clearly a major change from FGTR; in the space of a year or so the band ended their link with the increasingly uninterested Jonathan King who didn't like their move away from short-form pop songs to longer, more complex pieces. They did the classic "getting our shit together in the country", learned how to play live, got a deal with Charisma and came up with this album.


    What do we think? Obvious discussion points are Phillips and Mayhew, the former in his final recorded Genesis outing, the latter making his only appearance. JM would ordinarily probably be seen as a competent drummer and nothing more, but he is in the position of being the one who was replaced by one of the best rock/pop musicians the UK has produced and who brought a whole other dimension of feel and creativity. But all that was yet to come and he was the drummer, doing a reasonable job with some often fiddly stop-start material.


    As far as the songs go, for me the album is carried by three of them - Looking For Someone and Stagnation being the standout ones, and The Knife. On a very rare occasion I could give Dusk a listen but the other two tracks do nothing much for me.


    But in its way it's a fascinating album in terms of their evolution.

    Abandon all reason

    Obviously a very different album from FGTR, but to my ears the two albums share a certain mood -- rather gloomy and humorless. Like most Gabriel-era material, TRESPASS took me a while to warm up to.


    I never cared for the lyrics to "White Mountain," but hearing a live version with Phil singing made me realize what a lovely melody it has.


    "Stagnation" is my favorite track on the album. For me, a crucial little touch in the song is that single long, low vocal note at the end of the instrumental break, right before the drums come crashing in. I always wonder whose voice that is.


    "Dusk" is my second favorite. As interesting as the longer demo version on ARCHIVE 1 is, it shows that the changes they subsequently made to the song were for the better. The vocal melody on the verses in the early demo is fairly ordinary; the vocal melody in the final version, in contrast, is just amazing. (And the prominent backing vocal parts -- wherein Ant seems to be the main voice -- are so much more in tune on the final version!)


    For me, "The Knife" is brought down by the "TV noises" in the middle, particularly the "OK men, fire over their heads!" part. It wrecks the sense of timelessness that the song might have had otherwise.

    I 'm a big fan of this album. I can totally understand why people would have a hard time getting into it, it sounds so dated after all but in terms of material and songwriting I still find it incredibly cohesive and solid. Great atmosphere.

    Trespass was the first Gabriel-era Genesis album, I had. Right from the start I was haunted by the particular atmosphere on the album, which is basically created by the mellow and slightly moody guitar sounds on Stagnation and Dusk. I also think, that John Mayhew did a great job. I still consider Trespass as one of my top five Genesis albums. Listening to it, is always uplifting. Although I usually put the album out in the middle of The Knife, because the way, they ruined this song, which starts so great and ends so dreadfully is hard to bear.

    First we learned to walk on water.

    Then we tried something harder.

    - Red Seven -

    Quote from slowdancer

    Trespass was the first Gabriel-era Genesis album, I had. Right from the start I was haunted by the particular atmosphere on the album, which is basically created by the mellow and slightly moody guitar sounds on Stagnation and Dusk. I also think, that John Mayhew did a great job. I still consider Trespass as one of my top five Genesis albums. Listening to it, is always uplifting. Although I usually put the album out in the middle of The Knife, because the way, they ruined this song, which starts so great and ends so dreadfully is hard to bear.

    Strange how music impacts people differently, to you it has an uplifting effect, to me I would say it is more soothing. What stood out for me, apart from the songs was the voice, definitely one of the first elements that got me hooked on Genesis. Peter's voice was so different and had such character that it drew me immediately in. Ant's and Mike's guitar work and of course the keyboards. The rhythm section didn't do much for me, I found that Mayhew followed the music more than driving it, the way Phil did immediately and Mike's bass at the time was actually quite negligible. Oh, honorable mention for the cover art, still one of my Genesis favorites.

    Quote from DecomposingMan

    I never cared for the lyrics to "White Mountain," but hearing a live version with Phil singing made me realize what a lovely melody it has.


    "Stagnation" is my favorite track on the album. For me, a crucial little touch in the song is that single long, low vocal note at the end of the instrumental break, right before the drums come crashing in. I always wonder whose voice that is.


    For me, "The Knife" is brought down by the "TV noises" in the middle, particularly the "OK men, fire over their heads!" part. It wrecks the sense of timelessness that the song might have had otherwise.

    Yes I'm not a White Mountain fan and it does underline that they had some pretty cringey lyrics. I read that they made a very conscious decision to put that in the 1976 tour setlist as a way of reassuring fans that although PG had gone they could still knock out an old number or two. If you've heard recordings from that tour then you might have heard that track being introduced by Rutherford, as Collins was still nervous about doing all the talking so MR and SH do some of the links and intros, which sounds very odd.


    I like that bit in Stagnation too. Am I right in thinking the "Then let us...." section is Phillips singing?


    I agree about that "OK men" bit in The Knife, I'm so glad you said that! It's really silly and even worse with the melodramatic female screams.

    Quote from slowdancer

    I usually put the album out in the middle of The Knife, because the way, they ruined this song, which starts so great and ends so dreadfully is hard to bear.

    Interesting - at what part of the song do you switch off?

    Abandon all reason

    Quote from Backdrifter

    I like that bit in Stagnation too. Am I right in thinking the "Then let us...." section is Phillips singing?


    I agree about that "OK men" bit in The Knife, I'm so glad you said that! It's really silly and even worse with the melodramatic female screams.

    Stagnation: As with the group vocals in "Dusk," it seems to be several of the guys singing, with Ant's voice somewhat standing out. Tony is undoubtedly in there too, and he sounded rather like Ant at the time.


    The Knife: Actually I find the female screams to be fairly effective -- better than the "OK men" voice, at any rate!

    It is actually the part, Decomposing Man mentioned above. The whole song goes down the drain from there on.

    First we learned to walk on water.

    Then we tried something harder.

    - Red Seven -

    Quote from DecomposingMan

    I never cared for the lyrics to "White Mountain," but hearing a live version with Phil singing made me realize what a lovely melody it has.

    There are several dodgy lyrics on the album imo. I chalk it up to youth and inexperience but as I said, someone listening to it could really hear beyond the flaws and realize the potential. White Mountain has a beautiful melodies and I love Looking for Someone, when Peter sings the intro, I find it simply arresting but then again some lyrics are questionable, you can hear he wanted to squeeze in stuff like: ''Buddha'' and ''Mumbo-Jumbo'' and quite frankly they are a bit ridiculous, fortunately there is plenty on the album that makes you sit up and take notice.

    Quote from Fabrizio

    There are several dodgy lyrics on the album imo. I chalk it up to youth and inexperience but as I said, someone listening to it could really hear beyond the flaws and realize the potential. White Mountain has a beautiful melodies and I love Looking for Someone, when Peter sings the intro, I find it simply arresting but then again some lyrics are questionable, you can hear he wanted to squeeze in stuff like: ''Buddha'' and ''Mumbo-Jumbo'' and quite frankly they are a bit ridiculous, fortunately there is plenty on the album that makes you sit up and take notice.

    I quite like the presence of 'buddha' and 'mumbo-jumbo' and the overall feel of that lyric with its sense of dislocation and frustration. I much prefer that, and wanting to sit down and wash out filth from guts, to flowery stuff about angels and dogs.

    Abandon all reason

    Quote from Backdrifter

    I quite like the presence of 'buddha' and 'mumbo-jumbo' and the overall feel of that lyric with its sense of dislocation and frustration. I much prefer that, and wanting to sit down and wash out filth from guts, to flowery stuff about angels and dogs.HE

    He is certainly aiming at conveying the feeling of frustration in those lyrics but personally I find they were very forcibly squeezed in. Like he had them floating around in his head and couldn't wait to incorporate them in some lyrics or when you learn a new fancy word in a foreign language and you use it all the time, sometimes inappropriately. A feeling I know :)

    Edited 2 times, last by Fabrizio ().

    i first listened to the knife on 1973's genesis live album. i had the feeling that i had heard it before, which was highly unlikely. early genesis songs don't get too much airplay...


    when i first listened to 'trespass', i found it too quiet and lifeless, except for the knife. but then it grew on me.


    stagnation     is one of my favourite genesis songs. it includes one of the trademark tony's keyboard solos.

    Had the album on this afternoon in the car and I regard it as one of my Genesis favourites.


    I struggle to detect that it was poorly drummed in comparison to the subsequent albums but what do I know about drumming? In fact I think I remember an interview with PG who said that it wasn't so much that JM lacked technique, but that it took him too long to grasp what the other band members wanted him to do.


    Going against the tide of opinion here, I list White Mountain as my favourite track on the album and in our recent top ten exercise I had it at #10 in my all time list. The guitar intro is worthy of Steve Hackett, I love the energetic synth, and the contrast between the fast and slow parts. OK, lyrics about wild animals tearing each other apart aren't poetry in motion but there are plenty of Genesis songs with lyrics that are difficult to understand or probably completely meaningless. Does anyone really know what Firth of Fifth is all about?

    I'm not a big fan of the first three Genesis albums, but of those three, Trespass is easily my favorite.


    To these ears, "Stagnation" is by far the best track and probably ranks in my top 5 Genesis songs of all-time. There are lots of great bits in there but what I really love is the ending. "White Mountain" is my second-favorite - not a Genesis classic in my book but a very good song all the same. Terrific atmosphere and I don't mind the lyrics.


    After that the album drops off for me, though I actually do have a minor soft spot for "Visions of Angels". The beginning of "The Knife" works really well also, but I agree that the song goes on way too long. The whole thing should have been 4-5 minutes with the middle section trimmed severely. Oh, and I find "Looking for Someone" to be really, really annoying.


    Still, not a bad album at all. I'll take it over the more popular Nursery Cryme any day.

    Quote from DecomposingMan

    For me, "The Knife" is brought down by the "TV noises" in the middle, particularly the "OK men, fire over their heads!" part.

    I meant to say earlier, a footnote to this - I used to think that voice was saying "OK men, fire over that hedge"! Which made it even more silly and annoying.

    Quote from HHA

    Still, not a bad album at all. I'll take it over the more popular Nursery Cryme any day.

    You mentioned your lukewarmness about NC in the FGTR thread as well. When I get around to starting the NC thread soon (unless someone else leaps in there first) it'll be interesting to hear your thoughts there, should you feel like airing them.

    Abandon all reason

    Quote from Backdrifter

    You mentioned your lukewarmness about NC in the FGTR thread as well. When I get around to starting the NC thread soon (unless someone else leaps in there first) it'll be interesting to hear your thoughts there, should you feel like airing them.

    Absolutely! I like writing and reading album reviews. And I promise my reviews will start to become more positive after Nursery Cryme :)

    Trespass is in my top 5, possibly even my top 3. I love that it has an almost folk rock vibe to it, which I attribute almost entirely to Anthony Phillips as you can hear it even more on The Geese and The Ghost and some of his other solo work (not to mention on non-album tracks like The Shepherd, Pacidy and Let Us Now Make Love).


    Contrary to what others have said, White Mountain might be my favourite track. The melody is beautiful, and the atmosphere when the song is performed live is phenomenal (from the recordings I've heard, at least). The lyrics are wonderfully dramatic, especially this moment: "Fang, son of Great Fang, the Traitor we seek/ the laws of the Brethren say this!" You can almost act it out, it's fantastic.


    Stagnation is likely the objective best track, and my second favourite. Tony's solo is fun to mime along to :)


    Looking for Someone is a good opener (I like stark opening, attention grabbing songs like this and Moonlit Knight), and The Knife a decent closer, though I agree with those who say it perhaps goes on a bit too long.


    Visions of Angels I find quite sweet and pleasant.


    The only one I find I don't have any attachment to is Dusk.

    Quote from Paperkate

    Looking for Someone is a good opener (I like stark opening, attention grabbing songs like this and Moonlit Knight),

    i had thought about that too. looking for someone and dancing in the moonlit knight have in common being album openers with an a-capella intro.