Are political threads allowed?

Quote from Liquid Len

i.e.- Trump in 2016. The polls had Hillary in a landslide, and yet….

By the way, I wouldn’t vote for Trump if my life depended on it. I usually don’t wade into politics with anyone other than my wife. Too visceral.

Literally beats me why anyone would vote for Trump. The fact he's even running is proof of how low the Republican party has sunk, they need more people like the senator (congressman?) from his own party who, after Biden won, said "Trump needs to put his big boy pants on" with reference to his unwillingness to accept the result.

Fear is, if Trump wins, where does it go? Civil War in USA? Nato falling apart because he doesn't understand the issues? Putin unchallenged? And we, who lived through the cold war, thought we were out of the woods!

Quote from IWishItWouldRainDown

Because your vote may prove the polls wrong.

But I bet that the Labor Party will win in the UK.

Quote from foxfeeder

Incidentally, how do they enforce compulsory voting with a secret ballot system? If you just turn up, fold the paper and drop it in the box, does that satisfy them?

Yes

Quote from IWishItWouldRainDown

I am for:

Proportional representation in Parliament

Direct-elected Government and Prime Minister, regardless of Parliament

Automatic holding-up of a binding referendum whenever a sovereign issue is tackled, demanded by a third of MPs or required by a citizens' initiative of at least 1,000,000 signatures

Compulsory vote

Polling day either held on a Saturday or turned into a Bank Holiday

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Yep. Exactly. A vote should always count. There should be a directly elected Head of State.

Quote from Micklemus

Unless there’s an independent in my constituency, I’ll engage in my usual creative ballot-spoiling.

Nothing wrong with that. A spoilt paper shows you make the effort to say that no one represents you. Not turning up shows nothing more than can't be arsed.

I've been a labour voter all my life. This time though I can't see how I can vote for them. They're so close to the Tories it's hard to tell them apart. I think they as group are just slightly more honourable. The promise to step down over beer gate if were they found guilty and Angela Rayner's promise to step down if she is found guilty of dodging tax when she was a care worker , of less than half the amount Boris made us pay for one party during COVID, seems to.me the main difference. The Tories would have steadfastly said let's wait and see as they did, then apologise and carry on as nothing happened as both Boris Johnson , Rishi Sunak and many others actually did. I was keen for Keir Starmer to be leader at the time but he has gone back on every one of his pledges that he made to Labour members and now his vision for for the future is blurred to say the least.

My MP is Labour lap dog as far I can see so she's out. I think I'll go green this time around . We have two green councillors in my ward, but I don't think they'll get in in the constituency. Notice I said slightly more honourable not honourable. It's a low bar.

Quote from foxfeeder

Incidentally, how do they enforce compulsory voting with a secret ballot system? If you just turn up, fold the paper and drop it in the box, does that satisfy them? I didn't know it was compulsory in Australia, and tbh, I'd be happy with such a system, but only if we had politicians who earn the respect to make it worth while. Not sure I can think of anywhere that such people are standing!

Also, I assume that, to enforce it, you need ID. I think ID is a good thing, without it, the system is open to all sorts of abuse, anyone could turn up and claim to be you, armed with enough knowledge of you.

Although IWIWRD answered you with a yes, I will also answer! Yes, all you have to do is turn up and have your name signed off by the checkers at the polling both, take the ballot paper, do what you like with it, then put it in the ballot box. You don't need ID.

My issue with requiring ID is that in the US Republicans want to use it to disadvantage lower income and minority voters who may not have ID.

I will just say something about proportional representation. Preferences can be hugely important in 'swing' or marginal seats (electorates, or what you in the UK call constituencies). We have two conservative parties, the Liberals (same as the UK Conservatives,) and the Nationals, who represent rural areas. They always preference each other although in rural areas the Nationals pretty much go unchallenged. Labor gets preferences from the Greens nowadays. At the last federal elections a lot of formerly Liberal seats were won by independents who represented the view that the Liberall Party has drifted too far to the right. In these cases Labor's preferences went to the independents. This is a trend which will continue.

Quote from FeelItComing

My issue with requiring ID is that in the US Republicans want to use it to disadvantage lower income and minority voters who may not have ID.

Hmmm. Just because a party in another country with a broken political system wants to misuse it, doesn't make it wrong. ID available free to anyone who needs it here, as in most countries I guess.

As an aside, going and spoiling the paper, or staying home and not engaging with the low talent politicians, which says more to them? I think the latter. I get the argument that many have fought and lost their lives for our right to vote, more than most people do, I think, I'm aware of the sacrifices in WW2 (both my parents lived through it) to give us the life we have now, but I'm pretty sure a lot of those same people would be pretty disgusted with the politicians we now have, and would turn their back on them too.

Will I vote this time? I don't know yet, let's see if a candidate, or a party, can convince me they can do the job. At least Labour appear to have learned some fiscal responsibility, though saying it is one thing, doing it another.

Musical recommendation: The Candidate (youtube.com)

No, it isn't wrong to ask for ID when voting. But as you say, if you are going to ask for ID you have to ensure that ID is available.

Voter ID: walking murmuring fossilised column of Edwardian halitosis and formerly Johnson's brexit minister Jacob Rees Mogg admitted that the introduction of voter ID in Britain, publicly justified as combating electoral fraud - virtually unknown in the UK - was an attempt to gerrymander elections in the tories' favour (see also the constituency boundary changes which favour the tories, and the Johnson government's takeover of the previously independent Electoral Commission, which now allows a sitting government to alter electoral law in their own favour - I wonder if Labour will reverse that? Don't hold your breath).

We also now have leaked communications confirming that a proposal to allow veterans' ID as official voter ID were rejected by the government as they feared it would make it hard to justify disqualifying student ID, also currently not permitted.

Few people, bizarrely including the main stakeholders, seem to properly understand the nuanced issues involved in voter ID. In a sense, Mogg - as vile as he is (fingers crossed he loses his seat but that's a high hope) - was correct in his gerrymandering remark, in that he was making the point that attempting to game elections in this way is poorly understood and may bite the gamer in the rear end.

Quote from FeelItComing

Although IWIWRD answered you with a yes, I will also answer! Yes, all you have to do is turn up and have your name signed off by the checkers at the polling both, take the ballot paper, do what you like with it, then put it in the ballot box. You don't need ID.

Are there still democracy sausages?

(I think I saw Democracy Sausages supporting Crispy Ambulance at Hammersmith Palais in 1981).

Quote from Backdrifter

Are there still democracy sausages?

(I think I saw Democracy Sausages supporting Crispy Ambulance at Hammersmith Palais in 1981).

Sausage sizzles. I can never be bothered. We turn up, cast our vote at my daughter's old primary school, and leave.

Quote from FeelItComing

Sausage sizzles. I can never be bothered. We turn up, cast our vote at my daughter's old primary school, and leave.

Are the sizzles otherwise well attended from what you can see?

I gather there are notionally fines for not voting but I'm not sure how they're applied or how the miscreants are identified.

As to the earlier reference to protest voting/ballot spoiling vs abstaining, to me it's clearly taking some action that sends the clearest message of discontent. Abstaining simply leads to lower turnout, which can be interpreted a number of ways including apathy, assuming your incumbent will win therefore shrugging and not bothering - which itself could mean tacit support or opposition - or broad protest against the system, as well as any number of other reasons for disengagement or simply not making it to the polling station in time despite intending to.

Abstaining is therefore unspecified absence, whereas spoiling the paper or voting for a 'minority' candidate is an instantly measurable action that is far more likely to send a tangible message.

Quote from Backdrifter

Are the sizzles otherwise well attended from what you can see?

I gather there are notionally fines for not voting but I'm not sure how they're applied or how the miscreants are identified.

As to the earlier reference to protest voting/ballot spoiling vs abstaining, to me it's clearly taking some action that sends the clearest message of discontent. Abstaining simply leads to lower turnout, which can be interpreted a number of ways including apathy, assuming your incumbent will win therefore shrugging and not bothering - which itself could mean tacit support or opposition - or broad protest against the system, as well as any number of other reasons for disengagement or simply not making it to the polling station in time despite intending to.

Abstaining is therefore unspecified absence, whereas spoiling the paper or voting for a 'minority' candidate is an instantly measurable action that is far more likely to send a tangible message.

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I guess Mr FIC spoils his ballot paper, because he 'hates them all' and 'they're all corrupt'. Etc, etc. If he were still in the UK, where he is from originally, he wouldn't vote a all.

In Australia if you don't vote, you are fined. People who haven't voted can be identified by checking if their names were marked off on polling day by the scrutineers.

Sausage sizzles have been a part of Australian elections for a long time - state, federal and even local council. People turn up to vote, hang around, have a hot dog, kids have a bit of fun and so on.

Look I know it's a serious situation that should never have arisen and I don't mean to make light of it... but:

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Quote from thewatcher

Interested bystander here, I have no horse in the race as I don't live in the UK. Actually because of my immigration status, I can't even vote in the stupid country I live in for now.

My observation on the above discussion re no good candidates, is that this doesn't negate the value and importance of voting. Even if the candidates are all terrible, one is probably worse than the others, and preventing that person from being elected is worth doing. Fair enough if one believes there are absolutely no tie breakers and can't decide, but I think it would be pretty rare for a set of personal values and candidates' stated positions not to result in a "yes that's my guy/gal" or at least "oh dear God no, anyone but them".

Spot on. You just described the upcoming election in the US perfectly. For me Trump absolutely falls into the “ANYONE BUT HIM”category. Biden may be a semi-doddering old man but at least he has some moral compass, doesn’t perpetually lie morning noon and night, and can empathize with others.

Quote from MoonlitKnight

Spot on. You just described the upcoming election in the US perfectly. For me Trump absolutely falls into the “ANYONE BUT HIM”category. Biden may be a semi-doddering old man but at least he has some moral compass, doesn’t perpetually lie morning noon and night, and can empathize with others.

When Trump won the first time, a US friend of mine told me she voted for him because she wanted to vote for anyone but Hillary. This seems to be a general trend these days. Don't give people any qualified candidates, force them to go for the least evil if that's possible at all.

Quote from rkive

But I bet that the Labor Party will win in the UK.

Not as much as the Tories are heading to a flop of historical magnitude. But the Labourites are not arising excitement among the voters.

Quote from Backdrifter

Abstaining simply leads to lower turnout, which can be interpreted a number of ways including apathy, assuming your incumbent will win therefore shrugging and not bothering - which itself could mean tacit support or opposition [...] Abstaining is therefore unspecified absence, whereas [...] voting for a 'minority' candidate is an instantly measurable action that is far more likely to send a tangible message.

That is my point.