GENESIS - Sum Of The Parts (documentary 2014)

  • If I was to rank them based on how much I enjoy their solo output over the years, it would be:

    Gabriel

    Hackett

    Phillips

    Banks

    Collins

    Rutherford


    But to be honest, my level of interest in their continuing solo output has waned, except for maybe Ant Phillips.


    Hackett seems to have landed in a decade-long rut; Gabriel hasn’t released anything I liked since Up; Banks' current preoccupation with classical has zero appeal to me; the last Collins' album I liked was released in '89, and for me Rutherford's brilliance as a solo artist began and ended with Smallcreep's Day.

  • As to Sum of the Farts, Steve and Ant may not have had the commercial success the others had, (Except Tony. Shame, that!) but to exclude him completely from a documentary that was "claimed" to focus on the collective and solo works of it's members is just wrong. And unjustifiable, except in the mind of one person. Can we guess who? ;)

    Ian, you're an adult. So why debase yourself by manipulating the title?


    Sum Of The Parts was as a project first discussed with executives from Eagle Rock, the director

    John Edginton and Genesis at the TSPM offices in September 2012. It was originally going to be a Classic Albums style documentary about The Lamb. It morphed into a documentary about the Five man era.


    The initial edit was handed to the management (TSPM) and sent to the band members (all) by the middle of June 2014. The management didn't like the original edit (this included footage from 1976), so it was edited again and the documentary was given to someone else to edit/direct. This is when the talking heads were added.


    The original directors vision included using footage of the NYC skyline from the 1970's, but the production team found that 1970's NYC skyline footage was expensive. So modern day footage was inserted into the area about the Lamb. The director disagreed with this.


    The five men were interviewed and appear in the rushes during that interview for 2 solid hours. NO WE DO NOT HAVE THE RUSHES. The seating was wrong also, that film studio has nicer seating and less noisy seating but on that fateful day in March of 2014 at Sundown studios that was chosen.


    The production wanted to move away from the previous documentary cliches (regarding Genesis), although the management never put forward anyone's name. So the production was not aware of Alan Hewitt, Christian, Mario, Dave Negrin and others. Their archivist stumbled across The Genesis Archive and found some of our materials to be most interesting. That is how we became involved, this involved a trip to London to the editing suite, one Friday in May of 2014.


    The documentary could have been much better, this we can all agree on. But in the end its like the management used Eagle Rock and the BBC who part funded it, the BBC spent £300,000. To produce an electronic press kit for the R-Kive release and we all know how uninspired that release is.


    Out of all of the talking heads, the best choice was Al Murray. Not only is he an interesting comedian, but he is a Genesis fan and he is also a musician.


    In some respects the documentary gathered the five men in a room. It also tracked down people like Ed Goodgold who was pivotal in their early success in America. Whilst no one is sure whether it was a good or bad idea to have Jonathan King in the documentary, it has to be said that even documentaries about either of the World Wars include the point of view of most of the sides involved, Nazi's etc


    The footage they used of the roundhouse was expensive to licence from the current owner, but thats all there is of that era. People assume Genesis were filmed all the time and at the time being filmed was an expensive luxury few bands could afford. The fact you have the five men in a room, the three men at the farm and then one or two follow ups with Phil at his NYC home and Mike in Basingstoke during a break in the Mechanics touring. Is a benefit and a plus.


    The issue is not with Tony Banks as some allude to, but perhaps the management who represent the artists it manages. The BBC one show performance was going to have Peter and Steve as well as Mike/Tony/Phil, but the moment Peter pulled out, a decision was made not to continue with Steve on the One show.


    The band all received the final edit, before the premiere in London on the 2nd October 2014. So its not like anyone could be surprised, Phil was lively that night and did utter comments to certain parts of the documentary in a good humoured way. It was Mike Rutherford's birthday and after the show the band, executives from Eagle Rock and the original director and editor were invited to a celebration after party, as was Peter and Steve.


    People need to understand how productions work, they are projects that have budgets. Licensing footage if it can be found, is an expensive part of any documentary. Flying to NYC to interview Phil wasn't cheap either, nor did the members of Genesis do it for free. They got an appearance fee.


    I have always maintained that Genesis need a Beatles Anthology documentary, perhaps 5 to 6 hours in length. But I just don't think there is the budget out there or the appetite from the band or management.


    I'm happy to answer questions, but wary of what I can say.


    Kind regards,


    TGA

  • I have always maintained that Genesis need a Beatles Anthology documentary, perhaps 5 to 6 hours in length. But I just don't think there is the budget out there or the appetite from the band or management.

    Yes! That would be a great idea but unlikely for the reasons you give.

    Abandon all reason

  • The beauty of having one's opinion!,

    Indeed. I've heard PG2 referred to as new wave more than prog. One of the things I've always liked most about his solo career, as with so many of my favourite artists, is that it defies categorisation. But if forced to categorise with a gun to my head, I'd say that certainly 2 and probably 3 are new wave.


    After which I would of course say, "OK can you please put the gun down now, this really isn't that important."

    Abandon all reason

  • I agree with you that some of his solo stuff would be considered New Wave. PG was honored at the annual Progressive Music Awards in 2014 and picked up the Prog God award, along with other recipients that included Rick Wakeman and Andy Latimer. He told the BBC backstage that he was "a lot more comfortable" with the prog label now than earlier in his career. Peter also stated "Despite prog probably being the most derided musical genre of all time there were - as today - a lot of extraordinary musicians trying to break down the barriers to reject the rules of music," which to me is the definition of prog music.

  • I can understand the reluctance to dip your toes into the new prog bands out there today. Most folks come to this site because they love Genesis. I'm here because of my appreciation for prog music, new and old. There are only a few who come to this site to expand their knowledge of what's out there today. There are so many great musical artists out there. I came to the old Genesis site more than 10 years ago thinking that prog had died, but a few fans back then turned me on to the likes of Porcupine Tree, Spock's Beard, The Flower Kings and many more fabulous bands. Since then, a few members have stuck together and have been sharing these artists with everyone on the site. If you visit the What Are You Listening To Now :) thread, you will see tons of new and old artists that we are enjoying. I hope you take the time to check some of them out. Personally, I love all genres of music (except rap and hip-hop), but I must say that progressive rock piques my interest daily.

  • I haven't visited the What Are You Listening To Now thread for ages. My tiny little mentions of electro, indie and pop stuff were lost amid the blizzard of prog entries and probably didn't generate any interest anyway even if they were noticed. That's not a moan, I just felt I didn't belong there!


    I did try some of the bands on there, randomly, but really didn't get on with what I heard. Too much of it was the kind of new prog I can't stand - melodramatic, trying seemingly too hard to have lots of different sections, ridiculous overuse of mellotron choir, "look how many notes we can cram in" style playing. It was a while back so I can't recall names but one was possibly a Dutch band doing a track with the refrain "We are astronauts on Spaceship Earth" - a lyric which in itself made me both laugh and cringe - and ticked all those boxes I mentioned. Clearly many of these musicians are technically very skilled but their talent isn't producing music that interests me and they too often strike me as not especially good songwriters.


    If there were "new prog" acts that avoided all those clichés and had something of a leaner, darker, edgier feel I might - might - possibly be maybe interested, conceivably, perhaps.


    PS - I'm very aware of having strayed off topic, I might move this to a Prog thread.

    Abandon all reason

    Edited 2 times, last by Backdrifter ().

  • You could apply that definition to anyone in any genre as long as they are doing it. So it’s obviously not a very good definition.

    It's problematic. On balance I'd agree it's not a particularly good definition. I've heard too many so-called prog bands transparently trying to be like early Yes and Genesis. Seemingly living in the 70s doesn't feel especially barrier-breaking to me.


    St Vincent sounds to me like someone not bothering about barriers, as does Jane Weaver, as do School Of Seven Bells and Goldfrapp. All acts I love but I never regard them as prog. But then there's always the vexed question, "Just what is prog?" which I think we have a thread on.

    Abandon all reason

  • If there were "new prog" acts that avoided all those clichés and had something of a leaner, darker, edgier feel I might - might - possibly be maybe interested, conceivably, perhaps.

    You might like Blind Ego, the new Pure Reason Revolution album, Finch, Ben Craven, Haken, Anekdoten, Tiles. If you're open to languages other than English, then there is an entire universe of great music.

  • Ian, you're an adult. So why debase yourself by manipulating the title?

    I haven't! The fact you don't like me criticizing the mess that too many people with too little relevance had too little focus to do properly is your problem, not mine.


    Most band documentaries are going to disappoint a lot of fans, particularly with a band who cover so many styles and eras, but this one went nuclear in that respect. Almost NO-ONE liked it, even within the band it seems.

    Ian


    There is a church bell

    That rings on the hour

    Filling the streets

    Stopping the world awhile

  • I haven't! The fact you don't like me criticizing the mess that too many people with too little relevance had too little focus to do properly is your problem, not mine.

    Criticism is welcome when its merited and due, it is encouraged when it's constructive and other ideas are debated fairly and remain relevant.


    What is it that you are trying to say here?

    Most band documentaries are going to disappoint a lot of fans, particularly with a band who cover so many styles and eras, but this one went nuclear in that respect. Almost NO-ONE liked it, even within the band it seems.


    Most band documentaries have the chance to fall fowl of the hype or unfair expectations placed upon them, especially concerning bands with a large catalogue or longevity. Went Nuclear is to suggest legal action followed, to suggest that almost no one liked it is also a generalisation. To then be so bold to say that the band didn't like it is indeed fatuous and naive.


    TGA

  • I said ALMOST no-one liked it. Certainly, within the forum, it was considered a turkey. Within the band, the only person who seemed pleased with it was Mike, but he's a friend of Eagle Rock's CEO, I believe, so I'll draw my own conclusions...………..

    Ian


    There is a church bell

    That rings on the hour

    Filling the streets

    Stopping the world awhile

  • Certainly, within the forum, it was considered a turkey.

    But this forum is not the be-all-and-end-all of Genesis fandom. Far from it, in fact.


    To be fair, you got your ass handed to you by TGA albeit with a lot more maturity than you appear to have displayed in your response. And you have the temerity to call me out on my so-called aggressive behaviour; I think it's high time you started looking at your own conduct (although I suspect that the fraternal relationship that you allege exists between Mike Rutherford and the Eagle Rock CEO is not too different to your association with the moderator of this here forum, based on the trolling and baiting in which you frequently indulge and yet receive no apparent reprimand).


    If you must reply to this post, please consider your words carefully. You're started to wear on me (doubtless the intent) and right now I've a mind to report you just for saying "hello".

  • I liked it. I don’t have impossible expectations like most Genesis fans.

    I like every documentary I've seen on the band (even those dodgy ones that don't feature any of the band members but have members of such musical giants as Mostly Autumn (?) dissecting passages of Genesis's music) because there's always something new to learn from them.


    Phil in particular is most entertaining in this documentary, especially when talking about the band's first visit to America and the kudos of staying in hotels for which bands are known for being thrown out of. Or just that moment when he's sat listening to Fly On A Windshield and he's clearly really digging it.

  • But this forum is not the be-all-and-end-all of Genesis fandom. Far from it, in fact.


    To be fair, you got your ass handed to you by TGA albeit with a lot more maturity than you appear to have displayed in your response. And you have the temerity to call me out on my so-called aggressive behaviour; I think it's high time you started looking at your own conduct (although I suspect that the fraternal relationship that you allege exists between Mike Rutherford and the Eagle Rock CEO is not too different to your association with the moderator of this here forum, based on the trolling and baiting in which you frequently indulge and yet receive no apparent reprimand).


    If you must reply to this post, please consider your words carefully. You're started to wear on me (doubtless the intent) and right now I've a mind to report you just for saying "hello".

    Highly amusing that you accused me of haunting you, yet you frequently refer back to old posts of mine so you can use them to "have a go" at me. Pot. Kettle? At least this one was only weeks old, not 8 months.


    As for association with the forum owner, I have no more than you do, although I don't have the stupidity to have a go at him by alleging that he doesn't understand irony. I suspect that even though English is his second language, he probably has more understanding than you do. Now THAT's irony.


    Incidentally, to intend to haunt you, it would help if I wasn't an atheist, but I am, so, sorry to disappoint you. Anyway, Hello, I must be going.

    Ian


    There is a church bell

    That rings on the hour

    Filling the streets

    Stopping the world awhile