Version Living Forever with rehearsals in 1992

    On the BBC One Show they were interviewed in the wake of Sum Of The Parts/RKive. When asked about possible future release of any unheard material Banks gave a very definite "No". When pressed on it he said "I'm the band's archivist and I'm telling you there is absolutely nothing left to release".


    That's very telling as it shows that he, and therefore they, don't regard anything in their vault as worthy of commercial release. We all know there is stuff so he doesnt literally mean it's EMPTY but clearly he means what is there isn't releasable. Barring the slight blip of this BBC set, which isn't a significant reversal of Banks's comment.

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    Like 2

    I'm just annoyed, as always, by extreme pessimism that something will NEVER work out. It will come out - it won't work out it won't work out. More and more unofficial recordings are coming out - 2021 and 2022 were sensational in this respect. We never know what will happen in life - I was shocked myself by Living Forever or the 1986 Rosemont soundcheck. Not to mention Hannover 1987. Somehow, no one removes these videos, so apparently it doesn't bother the team. I really wouldn't be surprised if something comes out in 2 years. And if it doesn't come out? Then we'll be looking for something unofficial. And that's it. In the end, even in 10 years we will get something - after all, these recordings will no longer be in the archives until the end of the world. Recently, a fragment of the Led Zeppelin concert video has been released. We really don't know what the future holds.

    Quote from Backdrifter

    On the BBC One Show they were interviewed in the wake of Sum Of The Parts/RKive. When asked about possible future release of any unheard material Banks gave a very definite "No". When pressed on it he said "I'm the band's archivist and I'm telling you there is absolutely nothing left to release".

    I've seen that same interview. I'm not sure if he was specifically talking about live recordings. I'm thinking he might have meant that there are no previously unreleased songs available or release. Things like "Little Leaf", "Wooden Mask", "The Movement", etc. I didn't take it as necessarily ruling out further live releases.


    Like many on here, I'm disappointed they're not releasing any complete concerts on this box set, but I'll take whatever I can get. Maybe if this thing sells enough, they'll consider releasing some full concerts.

    We'll see how it goes. But really, this idea of this box from the We Can't Dance album would be sensational, as presented by usapcfan. I would buy it immediately if I had the opportunity, even if I had to save money every month. However, this is currently unrealistic.

    Quote from Henry Hamilton-Smythe

    I've seen that same interview. I'm not sure if he was specifically talking about live recordings. I'm thinking he might have meant that there are no previously unreleased songs available or release. Things like "Little Leaf", "Wooden Mask", "The Movement", etc. I didn't take it as necessarily ruling out further live releases.


    Like many on here, I'm disappointed they're not releasing any complete concerts on this box set, but I'll take whatever I can get. Maybe if this thing sells enough, they'll consider releasing some full concerts.

    I've heard of The Movement, but what are Little Leaf and Wooden Mask?!


    I've no expectation of a totally unheard song ever surfacing. As others have said full concerts would be nice. I bought a 3 cd set of BBC stuff on amazon that includes more of the Trespass songs to flesh out the official upcoming box. It would be great someday if a full version of the Do The Neurotic rehearsal makes it's way out unofficially. Still can't believe they even tried that! I wonder if they ever tinkered around with the likes of You Might Recall behind closed doors.

    Quote from pawciob1

    I'm just annoyed, as always, by extreme pessimism that something will NEVER work out.

    It's not extreme pessimism, it's realism and practicality.

    Quote

    More and more unofficial recordings are coming out


    I really wouldn't be surprised if something comes out in 2 years. And if it doesn't come out? Then we'll be looking for something unofficial

    You said it. There's loads of unofficial cds available. There'll likely be more. They almost certainly sell in tiny numbers, but they're there. Go fill yer boots.

    Quote

    no one removes these videos, so apparently it doesn't bother the team

    Or they aren't aware, or take the view that if they block it other stuff will pop up. So? You continue to make no compelling case for official releases of rehearsals.

    Abandon all reason

    Eh. I really think a lot of people will watch and listen to it. In 2 days, 2,000 people watched 35 seconds of Do The Neurothic video. 35 seconds. Is that little? All it takes is a good marketing promotion, looking for unique items, the work of NOT A TEAM, but sound and image engineers - and I'm sure a lot of people will buy it. Full bootleg from rehearsals plus unknown songs that have not been played in concerts and practiced in rehearsals. Usapcfan presented a very good idea how this problem could be solved. The argument for these attempts is also that at the beginning of the tour these songs simply sound better. An example is Driving The Last Spike, Domino from 1986, Mama from 1983, Dreaming While You Sleep and many other songs. I want to know, for example, what Abacab sounded like in rehearsals in 1981. Phil has a much better voice at the beginning of the tour. Unfortunately, I can't help it that the team doesn't want to hire these 10-15 people. In their place, I would have done it right away.

    Quote from pawciob1

    I really think a lot of people will watch and listen to it. In 2 days, 2,000 people watched 35 seconds of Do The Neurothic video. 35 seconds. Is that little?

    Again, number of views is NOT the number of people. Even if it were 2000 actual people, rather than 500 nerds watching it 4 times in 2 days, no that's not little if it's people you're being introduced to at a dinner party. On the other hand, if you're going to Tony Smith to pitch releasing rehearsal cds, then not only is it a pitiful basis for that pitch but at best he'd just laugh at you.

    Abandon all reason

    If I went alone hahaha, it's obvious that I won't achieve anything. They must be good friends of Tony Smith, Phil or Concord people. It's not up to us to try to convince them to release anything. We can express our opinion, but we do not decide about it. We'll see what happens - I think that in the future we will hear some of these recordings from different years. And if not? It's hard. We will not force anyone to do anything. Unofficial recordings will remain. We'll just ask people if they have anything. This is what brings the effect - not once after the questions, people showed unofficial things - real unique items. I am curious about what the future will bring.

    I do feel like someone connected to the band is watching activity on YouTube... The current weekly releases of songs from Phil's No Ticket Required and now the Serious Tour means someone has been tasked with increasing their online profile. It may point to nothing, but it also may be how they will gauge how much interest there is in Phil/Genesis and guide what/if something moves closer to becoming an official product.

    I know BackDriffer and a few others disagree with me, I respect that. But let's not really say in advance that nothing will ever work out. Of course, I know that the behavior of Phil and the band so far shows that they are not interested in releasing anything new. But today there is a resurgence in the popularity of Phil and Genesis again. I believe someone on the team needs to follow social media. And there the comments are clear - we want something new! As I wrote - at most it will not work out and we will be forever doomed to unofficial recordings. Today, these recordings are not removed from the network anyway. Today, technology is so advanced that sooner or later some unknown things will come to light. Some unknown Phil demo from 1988 will be revealed today. Really, who would have guessed? We just don't know what will happen. Let's not be completely optimistic, but let's not succumb to extreme pessimism either. So many things have happened in these two years that no one would have guessed. And I think that, for example, The Neurothic live may be a matter of a year or two. We don't know what people have in their collection. Let's just wait and see.

    I think the best we can hope for is that at some stage, someone sees value in reissuing the previously released "archives" sets or the box sets, and in the process of doing so, decides that some expanded form that includes a few more treasures is worth the hassle. Maybe that would even include a rehearsal or two, though I doubt it (it honestly sounds like a marketing nightmare: here's this shit we thought wasn't good enough to play live thirty years ago. Pay us lots to hear it now!).


    I'd have thought the Genesis fans most likely to splurge on such items would be, how to put it... at a stage of life where paying for daycare is less of a concern and buying a nice box set is feasible. But as I've also said I know nada about the economics of these things and my hunches are as likely wrong as not.

    Quote from pawciob1

    let's not succumb to extreme pessimism

    IT'S NOT PESSIMISM ffs. It's called being realistic.


    By the way I love the use of "so far" - so far, as in 50+ years and counting! 😂


    Of course they're not going to follow social media and use that as a basis for archive releases, that's just absurd.


    Anyway I'm going to have to leave you to your persistent fantasising.

    Abandon all reason

    Like 1

    I can appreciate pawciaob1's enthusiasm for wanting to find rare performances either via rehearsals, demos or concerts. We have all been excited and frustrated at one time or another following and supporting this band. I'm sure many veteran fans here have tried to contact the band or associates relative to what they may have and what the fans would like to be released. I also realize how unrealistic it is that the band would release any archival material that obscure. They haven't released anything since the remixed boxsets which was 2007-2009. Then Sum of the parts documentary and R-Kive in 2014 and the last Domino compilation in 2021. I was very disappointed and somewhat surprised that they didn't continue releasing something each year after 2009. The band surprisingly contracted with themusic.com and released every show of the 2007 tour. This certainly wasn't a big money maker, but it showed that the band may not be as precious about letting out performances that may not be up to standard. I'm not sure if there was a complete lack of interest on the band's part or something to do with their record contracts. The first talk of archival releases such as soundboard tapes was way back in 2001. That actually seemed like the band had some interest and were quite willing to get those tapes restored and released in some form. At the time, it was still common to release cd's and downloads were still a very new medium. It may have been too expensive for the very small amount of consumers for them to even bother.

    Now in 2023, there are so many different mediums, and you find that many bands are releasing concerts via downloads and streaming services. Nugs Net is a very popular service which many bands have contracted to provide a platform for this type of product. There are many jam bands who by nature release all of their shows but there are also huge groups like Metallica who have used this service. They may actually be a good one to compare with Genesis in that they are/were very successful and by no means need the money. Youtube and other streaming platforms could be made available as a subscription service. I feel that unless a platform was created with the very objective of releasing archival content, such obscure things such as rehearsals or demos would have no chance of being released. Ok, maybe if the band does expanded boxsets of each album you may get a few tracks that they feel are of a certain quality or are very unique but they will not release 10 disc sets.

    The band also hasn't really had an active website for many years which does show to some extent that they don't really want to interact with the fan communities in the same way they did back in old official website. Maybe that will change in the coming months or years, but who knows. It was really nice when the old site had access to people like Nick Davis and others associated with the management as it seemed that some suggestions were able to be made even if they weren't taken in serious consideration.

    Totally agree with the above post. Of course, I don't take credit for it, because you can never force someone to give something away. But I think OVERALL in 2021 and 2022 fans - not just me - have mobilized and are looking for different things a lot more than before. And there are effects. Huge effects. How many unofficial things have come out? Probably 30 new bootlegs in 2 years and 6 or 7 good video proshots or fragments of them. And surprisingly, I don't think this is the end. The Genesis Museum has also released sensational films. I know there hasn't been anything new since 2009 - since this remastered version of The Way We Walk CD. In the past, where I had not looked at it at all, I was practically working all the time, studying and completing this doctorate was a priority. But since 2 years I have a bit more time, I became interested in all this. I know that in the past the band was more integrated with the fans, there were, for example, chats with Phil. Now it's gone - but I believe there is one root cause - age. The band members and management are not young, and I don't think the rest of Tony Smith's collaborators are young either. And that means they just don't want to be bothered too much anymore. Young people are needed there. I also believe that the management is not aware of the popularity of the band and its increase again from 2020. They still think it's an "elite" band, and young people don't want to listen to them. This is of course not true. I saw a lot of 30-40 year olds on Phil's tour in 2017-2019, and on the Genesis tour in 2021 and 2022 too. My opinion is that someone should just make it clear to the management what the expectations of the audience are. Not me - none of you - only people who are friends with them. Hire 10-15 audio and video engineers, 2 years of work - and some video is released. I always believe that if you don't suggest something to someone, it's rare that the person will do it on their own initiative. I do exactly the same at work. This often brings results. I said - at most nothing will ever be released. Approx. We'll be looking for unofficial stuff year after year - and I'm sure we'll find something else - you just have to ask. It will be very difficult, but you have to try. We'll see if this Concord company has a better approach.