Up Close with DARYL STUERMER

    • Official Post

    cheers

    Christian


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  • Thanks for this. Due to family and work commitments, this is another event that I won't be able to attend but that's life, I suppose.


    I have a very high regard for Daryl as a musician. He transformed the sound of Genesis from the moment he joined and I think he gave them the confidence to broaden their musical outlook as well as getting a little bit looser with their arrangements. He has proved to be a vital component in Phil Collins's music as well as making significant contributions to the albums of Mike and Tony.


    As far as I'm concerned, Daryl - like Chester - is a legitimate member of Genesis and I won't hear a word said to the contrary. Let's face it, both he and Chester would have played on the records if it wasn't for logistics and the band have said as much (they strongly considered getting them to play on Duke but realised that in the time it would take to fly them over and for them to recover from jet lag, they could have recorded the extra bits of drums and guitar they needed - in fact you can hear Phil doubling up on the drums on tracks such as Duke's Travels and Man of Our Times).

  • I once read an interview in which it was said that Daryl, came up with an arrangement of No Reply At All in a rehearsal. This enabled the band to perform it live without the EWF horn section. This live and alternative arranged version can be heard on The Archive 2 - 1976 to 1992 box set.


    Regards


    Mark

  • Yes. I prefer the version with the EWF horns but it's nice to have the recording from the Archive 2 set. One day I'm going to make good on my promise to myself and put together a more complete Thee Sides Live including No Reply At All, Man On the Corner and Firth Of Fifth (which I got on flexi disc from the long-dead fan club many years ago).

  • I have a very high regard for Daryl as a musician. He transformed the sound of Genesis from the moment he joined and I think he gave them the confidence to broaden their musical outlook as well as getting a little bit looser with their arrangements. He has proved to be a vital component in Phil Collins's music as well as making significant contributions to the albums of Mike and Tony.


    As far as I'm concerned, Daryl - like Chester - is a legitimate member of Genesis and I won't hear a word said to the contrary.

    Seconded. And by all accounts he's a really lovely guy.


    At the risk of opening old wounds, I've often felt Daryl comes in for some slightly harsh treatment by some fans due almost entirely to his solo on Firth of Fifth being different to Steve's. Love them both personally.

  • Seconded. And by all accounts he's a really lovely guy.


    At the risk of opening old wounds, I've often felt Daryl comes in for some slightly harsh treatment by some fans due almost entirely to his solo on Firth of Fifth being different to Steve's. Love them both personally.

    Yes, a few fans get very precious about that solo. I think part of that simply comes down to feeling protective over Steve and part of it comes from wanting the solo to sound exactly the same as it does on the studio album. Personally, I don't feel particularly protective over Steve and I don't want the solo to sound the same everytime it's played!


    But my favourite guitarist is John McLaughlin so that should give some clue as to where my musical tastes lie.

  • One day I'm going to make good on my promise to myself and put together a more complete Thee Sides Live including No Reply At All, Man On the Corner and Firth Of Fifth (which I got on flexi disc from the long-dead fan club many years ago).

    An expanded version of Three Sides Live exists that includes all those songs, including Who Dunnit? It's called Two Discs live and can be found on The Genesis Movement Torrent site. It's well put together and I highly recommend getting it!

  • I like Daryl as guitarist. Even Tony mentioned that Steve would play stiff, so when he came on on board for the touring cycles, he was much more loose. In time, I'm actually glad that Genesis remained a three piece band after Steve's departure in studio. It worked and the rest is history.

  • I really liked Daryl Stuermer's work on Jean-Luc Ponty's Aurora. His first solo album (Steppin' Out) is very nice too, in a more formatted way. I don't mind his FoF solo - haven't heard it since the Eighties, mind you.


    It's too bad he was never made a full member/allowed to write and record in the studio with the remaining three. Not sure the sales figures would have benefitted (would he have excited Phil's Brand X fiber, or just become the new junior muso in that strange 'democracy' of a band?), but the post-1977 stuff might have gained some staying power beyond the new pop fanbase.


    I would have loved to hear jointly written tunes by those four musicians—make it five: Chester 'deserved' a spot as well—although I'm not sure Daryl had it in him to bring back some of the sorely-missed edge/light and shade PG and SH tended to provide.

  • I really liked Daryl Stuermer's work on Jean-Luc Ponty's Aurora...

    Of the ones he played on, that one is my favourite.

    Hearing him play with JLP gave me a greater appreciation of the breadth of his skills and allowed me to perhaps see him in a different light.

    Prior to that, I tended to be less forgiving about some of his unleashed playing when he performed with Genesis.

  • He was a sideman given free rein on his solo spots - I could relate to that... but mostly didn't have to think about it as I had given up on (what was left of) the band by then!

  • I'm actually glad that Genesis remained a three piece band after Steve's departure in studio. It worked and the rest is history.

    I'm a bit ambivalent actually, I am sad Steve left and I think the band really lost something with his departure. It would have been nice to see him grow and although I have never envisioned him as one of the top writers within the band, I believe a couple of his songs could have comfortably made the final cut on a Genesis album. Most of all, I was hoping he would become more assertive in terms of sound and provide some sort of counterweight to Tony's dominance. W&W is a bit of a keyboards orgy at places. I love Tony's playing but at times he could have used some editing, unfortunately the one guy who could fight him on that left after the Lamb. That said, since Steve decided to leave, I believe it made little sense at that stage to look for another guitarist. It would have complicated things on a personal and musical level, particularly considering that Phil became a writer too. I believe. Daryl proved to be skilled, malleable and flexible, you can't ask for more from a hired gun.

    I still cringe at some of his performances, I think they are mainly chops over heart and I never understood how some Genesis fans would have been in favor of him playing on the albums, to me he is clearly stylistically a terrible fit but he was doubtlessly a valid live asset. He and Chester really raised the bar for the band live.

  • Daryl playing/writing on the albums would have taken the band in a different direction, methinks.


    ...which may explain why he never made full member... and why that feels like a missed opportunity AFAIC...

  • Daryl playing/writing on the albums would have taken the band in a different direction, methinks.


    ...which may explain why he never made full member... and why that feels like a missed opportunity AFAIC...

    We know next to nothing about Daryl the songwriter, I suspect it is really not his strong suit or else we would have heard something from him in all these years he has been around. I somehow doubt he would have been able to shift the balance to the point that he would have been able to steer Genesis into a different direction. They were never really a guitar driven band, as Steve knew very well and that's why they never really cared to replace him.

    Stylistically, as we can hear on his renditions of Steve's parts he is very far from Genesis imo, so personally I am glad they never considered it.

  • We know next to nothing about Daryl the songwriter, I suspect it is really not his strong suit or else we would have heard something from him in all these years he has been around. I somehow doubt he would have been able to shift the balance to the point that he would have been able to steer Genesis into a different direction. They were never really a guitar driven band, as Steve knew very well and that's why they never really cared to replace him.

    Stylistically, as we can hear on his renditions of Steve's parts he is very far from Genesis imo, so personally I am glad they never considered it.

    I hear you - just daydreaming here as I'm firmly in the "couldn't have been worse" camp...


    Have you heard his solo albums? I only know (and like) Steppin' Out


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  • I hear you - just daydreaming here as I'm firmly in the "couldn't have been worse" camp...


    Have you heard his solo albums? I only know (and like) Steppin' Out


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    I have, quite some time ago and found it quite frankly forgettable, to be honest I should go back and listen again to it again to be able to discuss it properly but I 'm not really motivated to do so. I have listened to the JLP album however and again I really don't think his playing has got anything to do with Genesis.

    He's just a truly amazing and technically gifted guitarist and musician but there are many of those.

  • Nothing to do with Genesis, I'll drink to that - but with its shell? ;)


    It's not a great album, to be sure. It's quite nice for what it is, though (guitar pop???) and it kind of shows what Daryl could do as far as writing, although to be honest I hear a lot of that 'Genesis lite' which he'd been absorbing at the time.


    Anyone knows his other solo albums ? What are they like ?

  • Nothing to do with Genesis, I'll drink to that - but with its shell? ;)


    It's not a great album, to be sure. It's quite nice for what it is, though (guitar pop???) and it kind of shows what Daryl could do as far as writing, although to be honest I hear a lot of that 'Genesis lite' which he'd been absorbing at the time.


    Anyone knows his other solo albums ? What are they like ?

    I think it's only normal after all the time spent with the band and particularly Phil that he would try and write remaining in that area. I haven't heard anything else from him.