Sequencing, trigger and click-tracks

    EDIT


    WARNING : IF YOU DON'T WANT TO KNOW ANY SUPPLEMENTARY DETAILS ABOUT THE SETLIST THAT HAS BEEN REHEARSED FOR THE TOUR, DON'T READ THE FOLLOWING MESSAGES, THERE ARE SOME SPOILERS !


    STOP HERE...


    ;)









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    Plus no major band goes on tour these days without sequencing. That might be okay for the Spice Girls but It sounds too robotic.

    It's true, but usually "sequencing" are in fact pre-recorded tracks (backing vocals, supplementary keyboard sounds, usually coming from the album multi-tracks...). But you're right, for nowadays pop bands, because people usually want them to sound exactly like the record. That doesn't mean they don't play a single note on stage. Even Peter Gabriel does it now (for certain keyboard parts, e.g No Self Control, but that doesn't mean he doesn't sing for real, and that none of his musicians plays for real over these tracks...).

    But to my knowledge, Phil Collins never did that (what we hear on the Not Dead Yet Tour is all played for real, no supplementary sounds or sequences needed).

    And I don't think Genesis will do that either.


    Because of that, drummers now need a metronome track to start exactly at the right tempo.

    Quote

    Nic is just diddling about over the top of sequenced beats most of the time!

    If you talk about drum machines (Mama, Invisible Touch), ok, but again that doesn't mean that what he has to play is that easy... "Mama" drum part is not "just diddling about over the top"...

    Drum machines are the ground for some songs, but you still have to build the house on it.

    Quote from Duke of Earl of Mar

    If you talk about drum machines (Mama, Invisible Touch), ok, but again that doesn't mean that what he has to play is that easy... "Mama" drum part is not "just diddling about over the top"...

    Drum machines are the ground for some songs, but you still have to build the house on it.

    Exactly. Not sure how this could ever generate controversy. Mama, In The Air Tonight, Man On The Corner, Tonight Tonight Tonight just to mention a few examples all have bits with a drum machine. It's just another instrument. Doesn't detract from the real drummer's job in the least.


    Am I missing something here?

    Drum Machine Tracks/Pre Records on Current Tour

    Mama

    Jesus

    Home By The Sea

    Fading Lights

    Duchess

    Hold on My Heart

    No Son of Mine

    Domino

    Throwing it All Away

    Tonight Tonight Tonight / Invisible Touch

    I Cant Dance


    On Previous PC Tour

    Another Day In paradise

    Throwing It All Away

    Who Said I would

    Only You Know and I Know

    In The Air Tonight

    Cant Turn Back The Years

    Invisible Touch

    Sussudio

    Any chance of a little context for this list of songs? We don't know the current setlist so what is the first list you posted? If these are songs from the current tour, what is the significance of "drum machine tracks" on those songs? What is a "pre-record"? If they are studio songs where a drum machine is used, so what? If they are songs played live where a drum machine is used, so what? Does it mean the live drummer is not good or should be judged for having an additional instrument on the song or something??


    Totally lost.

    Quote from thewatcher

    Any chance of a little context for this list of songs? We don't know the current setlist so what is the first list you posted? If these are songs from the current tour, what is the significance of "drum machine tracks" on those songs? What is a "pre-record"? If they are studio songs where a drum machine is used, so what? If they are songs played live where a drum machine is used, so what? Does it mean the live drummer is not good or should be judged for having an additional instrument on the song or something??


    Totally lost.

    All I did was list the songs that have been performed (Production Rehearsal on Thursday and Production Rehearsal on Saturday) on the current tour that have a Drum machine track or a pre record. It was for informative purposes only given the comments above by Rael and Duke of Earl of Mar. Doesnt have anything to do with the quality of drummer - Nic is outstanding - I was just merely stating some facts about which songs had pre records or drum machine tracks.


    In terms of the difference between pre-records and drum machines - JHKM has a pre record, so does Land of Confusion (Sorry missed that off the list earlier). One is pre recorded instrumentation - synth bass line in LOC and the other is a drum machine pattern, think the other songs. Hope this helps.

    Quote

    JHKM has a pre record, so does Land of Confusion (Sorry missed that off the list earlier). One is pre recorded instrumentation - synth bass line in LOC and the other is a drum machine pattern, think the other songs. Hope this helps

    Well, I learned something today...

    I always thought the synth bass in LOC was played by Tony on his DX7 in 1986-1987, and by Daryl after (by triggering the synth with his bass, or with a synth pedal or something like that...).


    EDIT : usapcfan, if you know anything about rehearsals and performed songs, please put it in "spoiler". Some people who will go to the concert want to be surprised... I'm not concerned, but other people do, and there are some rules that we have to follow (discussing on specific threads only...).


    ;)

    Quote from usapcfan

    All I did was list the songs that have been performed (Production Rehearsal on Thursday and Production Rehearsal on Saturday) on the current tour that have a Drum machine track or a pre record. It was for informative purposes only given the comments above by Rael and Duke of Earl of Mar. Doesnt have anything to do with the quality of drummer - Nic is outstanding - I was just merely stating some facts about which songs had pre records or drum machine tracks.


    In terms of the difference between pre-records and drum machines - JHKM has a pre record, so does Land of Confusion (Sorry missed that off the list earlier). One is pre recorded instrumentation - synth bass line in LOC and the other is a drum machine pattern, think the other songs. Hope this helps.

    Great job of possible setlist spoilering there despite clear guidance from the moderator.

    Abandon all reason

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    Great job of possible setlist spoilering there despite clear guidance from the moderator.

    Yeah, I just edited (BIG WARNING !!!!!) my two previous messages to warn people that usapcfan seems to know something, I hope it will be sufficient...

    Not my fault, but still, I'm sorry...

    Quote from Duke of Earl of Mar

    Yeah, I just edited (BIG WARNING !!!!!) my two previous messages to warn people that usapcfan seems to know something, I hope it will be sufficient...

    Not my fault, but still, I'm sorry...

    Thanks, and also well done on your much more even-tempered response to usapcfan than mine!

    Luckily I've programmed my eyes to instantly avert at the very nanosecond they see anything remotely setlisty-looking. All I saw was reference to a song already seen in a teaser video anyway.

    Abandon all reason

    Quote from usapcfan

    All I did was list the songs that have been performed (Production Rehearsal on Thursday and Production Rehearsal on Saturday)

    Where can reports be found regarding those production rehearsals? I have searched everywhere and have come up empty. Please advise.

    Quote from usapcfan

    My apologies.

    No worries, no harm done.


    I don't dare look back at your post but if you haven't already, perhaps either enclose in a spoiler tag or probably better, copy it into the setlist spoilers thread and link to it from the above post? 👍

    Abandon all reason

    usapfan,


    If you were at or was given access or information on the setlist of the two production rehearsals Thursday and Saturday, would you be willing to share that information to those who want to know? Obviously, with spoiler warnings?

    Because of that, drummers now need a metronome track to start exactly at the right tempo.

    Quote from Duke of Earl of Mar

    If you talk about drum machines (Mama, Invisible Touch), ok, but again that doesn't mean that what he has to play is that easy... "Mama" drum part is not "just diddling about over the top"...

    Drum machines are the ground for some songs, but you still have to build the house on it.

    I must admit I was being deliberately provocative when I said he was diddling. Yes of course rather than hating drum machines Phil embraced their potential and used them to great effect on many Genesis songs. Re-enforcing his talent as a great drummer and composer. As a result many Genesis songs will use a pre-recorded track or sample. I just get the impression, whereas previously they may have been used to start a song and then they actually played the rest. Its now pervasive throughout the entire piece. Okay that may be a new approach and they may have used a "click" in 2007 and possibly 1992. Timing needs to be perfect in order to sync to complex video for one thing.

    Many years ago I used to work with a guy who was a roadie on the Lamb tour. He told me that they tried to use automation to project the slides but because of timing issues it had to be done by hand. There is certainly no click track on Seconds out and 3 sides live and they sound all the better for it.

    Quote

    There is certainly no click track on Seconds out and 3 sides live and they sound all the better for it.

    I agree with you. I like the "imperfections" (tempo, playing...) or small differences given by a live recording over the studio version. It is something that modern tours, because of programmed cues for video or lightening, usually lack.

    ;)

    Quote from Duke of Earl of Mar

    I like the "imperfections" (tempo, playing...) or small differences given by a live recording over the studio version. It is something that modern tours, because of programmed cues for video or lightening, usually lack.

    ;)

    Bloody hell, bands have lightning on stage?! 😛


    I find that despite the programming and sequencing etc, in my experience there are still enough of those differences, quirks, imperfections etc to distinguish gigs from each other. Probably less so with an experienced well-oiled machine like Genesis admittedly.

    Abandon all reason

    Some earlier Genesis songs would not have worked with a click, even if they would have been easy to use at the time. They often made use of changes of tempo to enhance the drama of that section of the section. Think of the slowing down and speeding up in The Knife or Supper's Ready. In the Cage speeds up typically in live performances, to great effect in my mind.


    However, many later Genesis benefit from a somewhat mechanical groove that is part of the overall feel for the song. This is likely because most of these songs started in jams to a drum machine, with Phil ad-libbing on vocals. So the feel of the drum machine was established in the song from early on. I don't find the drum machines and backing tracks to detract from the live performances as there are still enough other nuances to keep these performances interesting and different.

    Edited once, last by Dr. John ().