Overall, I think IT is as good as a pop album as TLLDOB and SEBTP are prog albums.
I see your point and I agree, IT is an incredibly strong, even and solid album...In that department and it's not like I have something against pop, it's just not the kind of pop I wished the boys would have indulged on,
I see your point and I agree, IT is an incredibly strong, even and solid album...In that department and it's not like I have something against pop, it's just not the kind of pop I wished the boys would have indulged on,
I don’t understand why IT gets a bad rap among Genesis fans. It’s an extremely tightly produced and arranged album, and yes it’s very 80’s sounding in many places, but it still sounds great to this day. The very nature of progressive music is for it to progress, and that’s what they continually did with their music, at least up through IT. You can make an argument that they stagnated on We Can’t Dance, but that is probably more a byproduct of the CD era, and so called “cd bloat” than anything else.
I don’t understand why IT gets a bad rap among Genesis fans. It’s an extremely tightly produced and arranged album, and yes it’s very 80’s sounding in many places, but it still sounds great to this day. The very nature of progressive music is for it to progress, and that’s what they continually did with their music, at least up through IT. You can make an argument that they stagnated on We Can’t Dance, but that is probably more a byproduct of the CD era, and so called “cd bloat” than anything else.
IT is immensely popular, amongst G fans and the general audience. The numbers are there and you can't deny them. A group of Genesis fans, including myself dislike it, I confess that I have a problem with music made around those years 87-88-89, even an album like SO hasn't aged all that well for me, even though I still like it better than IT. You are right, it's extremely well produced and arranged and as I said, the material is solid, if I review the tracks, apart from the title track, into deep and anything she does which I find atrocious and TAA which is merely OK and cute, the rest are indeed good songs. I'm more likely to listen to Abacab which I find dodgy in terms of material because of the energy and the edge. Side A of Shapes is where I wished they would have stayed, it's still pop but more focused than Abacab and there's some quirkiness and originality to the songs. IT, for my taste, is too sleek, too smooth and well-oiled. As for the argument of progressive music and evolving you've got a point but IT is a bad example IMO. King Crimson with their debut album and then Discipline come to mind, they evolved. Going from Love me do to a Day in the life within 5-6 years is evolving, the opposite wouldn't. They changed alright, I'd hesitate to call it evolution or progress.
Top 3?
Would have to be...
Top 3?
Would have to be...
- Duke
- We Can't Dance
- Selling England
Interesting. Although WCD isn't in my top 5 or 6, it has sentimental value as the album that really got me into Genesis in the first place. Nice to see it getting some love!
Top 3?
Would have to be...
- Duke
- We Can't Dance
- Selling England
Ah there are some hidden gems on WCD. Driving The Last Spike & Fading Lights are great epics. Jesus He Knows Me is very clever for what it does. It’s overall a good album. It might not be one of my favorites but for what it does it brings me interest.
IT is immensely popular, amongst G fans and the general audience. The numbers are there and you can't deny them. A group of Genesis fans, including myself dislike it, I confess that I have a problem with music made around those years 87-88-89, even an album like SO hasn't aged all that well for me, even though I still like it better than IT. You are right, it's extremely well produced and arranged and as I said, the material is solid, if I review the tracks, apart from the title track, into deep and anything she does which I find atrocious and TAA which is merely OK and cute, the rest are indeed good songs. I'm more likely to listen to Abacab which I find dodgy in terms of material because of the energy and the edge. Side A of Shapes is where I wished they would have stayed, it's still pop but more focused than Abacab and there's some quirkiness and originality to the songs. IT, for my taste, is too sleek, too smooth and well-oiled. As for the argument of progressive music and evolving you've got a point but IT is a bad example IMO. King Crimson with their debut album and then Discipline come to mind, they evolved. Going from Love me do to a Day in the life within 5-6 years is evolving, the opposite wouldn't. They changed alright, I'd hesitate to call it evolution or progress.
What do you think of Domino? For all the angst about this album and the pop direction it took the band, you would think a song like Domino would keep the old time prog fans content. Even on WCD, they had songs like Driving the Last Spike. They didn’t lose their progressive roots all the way. The five single tracks off of IT were EVERYWHERE in the late 80’s. At least in the US, the big five from IT were played in heavy rotation, day and night. And a song like Domino was saved for the progressive leaning of the fan base. It’s like they said, here— we are going to put all these sleek pop oriented songs on the album, but here’s one for you, old time fans.
What do you think of Domino? For all the angst about this album and the pop direction it took the band, you would think a song like Domino would keep the old time prog fans content. Even on WCD, they had songs like Driving the Last Spike. They didn’t lose their progressive roots all the way. The five single tracks off of IT were EVERYWHERE in the late 80’s. At least in the US, the big five from IT were played in heavy rotation, day and night. And a song like Domino was saved for the progressive leaning of the fan base. It’s like they said, here— we are going to put all these sleek pop oriented songs on the album, but here’s one for you, old time fans.
Well Tonight Tonight Tonight was one of the singles and that (along with the aforementioned Domino and The Brazilian) was a bit experimental. Too much to satisfy a prog fan, but enough to keep them interested.
Obviously they evolved and progressed. Blatantly obviously, of course they did. It's just a certain type of fan who happen to not like where they went and therefore fold their arms and say it wasn't progress. Anyone with a properly functioning set of ears could see they were applying the same musical skill and integrity, but applying it differently than before, now developed and honed. If you don't like the results, fair enough but it's daft and maybe even a bit solipsistic to claim it wasn't progress or evolution just because it's not to your taste.
Obviously they evolved and progressed. Blatantly obviously, of course they did. It's just a certain type of fan who happen to not like where they went and therefore fold their arms and say it wasn't progress. Anyone with a properly functioning set of ears could see they were applying the same musical skill and integrity, but applying it differently than before, now developed and honed. If you don't like the results, fair enough but it's daft and maybe even a bit solipsistic to claim it wasn't progress or evolution just because it's not to your taste.
Well said, BD!
What do you think of Domino? For all the angst about this album and the pop direction it took the band, you would think a song like Domino would keep the old time prog fans content. Even on WCD, they had songs like Driving the Last Spike. They didn’t lose their progressive roots all the way. The five single tracks off of IT were EVERYWHERE in the late 80’s. At least in the US, the big five from IT were played in heavy rotation, day and night. And a song like Domino was saved for the progressive leaning of the fan base. It’s like they said, here— we are going to put all these sleek pop oriented songs on the album, but here’s one for you, old time fans.
Domino is fine, doesn't really blow me away. On some occasions, albeit rarely, Tony's songs and Domino is a typical one, don't really resonate with me, The Lady lies would be an example. I guess it's a matter of form over substance for me. Tony has a formula and sometimes it gets predictable. I don't need to have time signatures changes or ballads in 7/8 all the time, I'm perfectly able you enjoy pop but the title track is really a low point for my taste and it opened the door to other low points on WCD. As I said before there are good songs on IT, LOC is one TTT is certainly another, we mentioned Domino and we could include the Brazilian but as I said, as far as I'm concerned that particular period in music, that sound and atmosphere is quite distasteful. It's like a mullet, it looked like a good idea at the time. I intentionally brought up SO because Peter is a music hero of mine and to be clear that album is way better than IT, imo but it has simply aged poorly for me.
I think - in general - it's fascinating to look closer at the output of the band AND the solo careers in the 80ies. I catually do like IT - it's so straight forward and powerful. Gabriel's So has more attention to detail, but I wouldn't necessarily say it's better for that reason. I like it a bit more, simple as that.
Man on the corner “3 sides live” Lyceum ball room
One mans fool
Birdsong & reprise
Man on the corner “3 sides live” Lyceum ball room
One mans fool
Birdsong & reprise
never heard of these albums 
And Then There Were Three, Duke and Abacab. I love the whole Genesis catalogue, but I have a particular soft spot for their sound during the late 70's/early 80's 
And Then There Were Three, Duke and Abacab. I love the whole Genesis catalogue, but I have a particular soft spot for their sound during the late 70's/early 80's
Not keen on ATTWT but Duke and Abacab are among their best work, I'm with you on that.
Not keen on ATTWT but Duke and Abacab are among their best work, I'm with you on that.
My ranking of Genesis albums frequently changes and at the moment ATTWT is my 2nd favourite. Each to their own I suppose
My ranking of Genesis albums frequently changes and at the moment ATTWT is my 2nd favourite. Each to their own I suppose
Exactly. It always interests me how even within a fan community of one band there is such a range of differing opinions but I suppose that reflects the range of this band's career.
For me ATTWT quickly settled into resting on 4 songs - Down & Out, Undertow, Many Too Many and Follow. Funnily enough for an album that consistently ranks very low in my personal list, two of those songs are firmly in my Genesis top 10 - D&O and MTM. Same for W&W - it's down there with ATTWT but BOTR and Afterglow are among the best songs they ever did.
Lamb and Abacab are the fixtures in my top 3 and the third spot changes around between NC, Duke and SEBTP.
Down & Out, Undertow, Many Too Many
Three of my all time favorite tracks of theirs too, on an album I considered 'blah'. D+O is stunning.
