Tony's keyboard sounds on We Can't Dance

I do know what you're getting at.

I love his work in Genesis, his flair for chords and the way he used them, plus some of his riffs and top lines, are sublime at their best. The chords in particular are, for me, at the core of the Genesis sound, and set him apart from other musicians in a way that (as with Hackett) should be much more recognised and credited than he is.

At his worst however, he could be very clunky and I think that aspect became more noticeable around the time you're referring to. This especially -

Quote from Trick of the Wuthering

a little bit jarring on Dreaming While You Sleep

- exemplifies it for me. You're more generous about it there than I'd be. I find that 4-part motif after the title phrase horrible, what seems an attempt at 'ominous' but for me the execution of it and the keyboard sound marked a low in his band work. To paraphrase you, I find it almost comical but in this case it's unintended.

EDIT - in fact it's just reminded me, it puts me in mind of Noel's melodramatic keyboard stings in the Ham Radio episode of Frasier, as heard here at around 01:12 just after "the lines have been cut!"

What I don't understand is how Tony went many years picking really great keyboard sounds and then lost his touch in later years. For the first 15 years, he wasn't just sticking with old equipment. He would get new keyboards and then use some really nice new sounds. While the sounds he used on the IT album were very much of the moment, I think they were good choices and fit those songs (e.g., on The Brazilian).

On WCD I liked some sounds, e.g., the "elephant" and the backing chords in No Son of Mine, all of Fading Lights. And then he picked very underwhelming ones, like the whole instrumental for Living Forever. His picks for sounds on the 2007 tour were also questionnable.

Interesting topic, and yes I am interested too to know more about the keyboards he used - afaik mainly a Korg OW-01 on WCD - then again, funny to see one more time how much perception differs. Speaking for myself, I really like his sounds on Living Forever but I was never too happy with the keyboard solo sound he picked for Fading Lights. Dreaming While You Sleep I find very convincing, the keyboards really make the foundation for the dark atmosphere of that song. That's also the one that comes closest to what was to follow on CAS imho.

The worst keyboard sounds Tony would use were the brass sounds on CAS (prime example Small Talk) and some of his solo records.

Phew, I'm not in a minority of one here.

I'll be brief because (a) what I was going to say has been covered already and (b) I don't want to sound like I'm having a downer on Tony. However...

The long and short for me is I feel he lost his way in terms of sound choices, and with some of his writing, from WCD onwards. Many of the keyboards sounds on that album put my teeth on edge and I'm very much in line with Backdrifter on the details. It got worse on Destroying All Credibility (aka CAS) and his sound choices on that tour, the 2007 tour and The Last Domino tour left something to be desired for me, in places anyway (usually when it came to 'older' material). I'm not 'dissing' Tony though because he's a legend as far as I am concerned, but when I think this is someone who eked every last possibility out of his keyboards in the 70s, it felt to me like he either picked easy options in later years or possibly that he was daunted by the options available with modern kit. Whatever the reasons, he just stopped hitting the spot from about WCD onwards.

I'll give an example from WCD which won't go down well here, but it's my opinion so I'll express it. His solo on Fading Lights. That one really troubles me. I can't stand the thin keyboard sounds on his solo, nor can I stand it that a strong guitar contribution is desperately needed (oops, off topic) and thirdly I think the solo itself is unimaginative. I enjoy the beginning and end of Fading Lights, I quite like the keyboard stabs that get the solo going, but once he's into the full-on noodling part my enjoyment evaporates.

I'm maybe too biased to comment. I loved what he came up with in his earlier years so he was always going to struggle to clear that bar on later albums.

Sorry, not very brief after all.

Tony's keyboard sound choices and overall chords and synth work are one of the main reasons WCD is my favorite Genesis album. As mentioned, it all just sounds so much different than anything else they had done-and I like that!

I do acknowledge that Tony's talent specifically was more on display during the 70's era, but if we're not just speaking from a technique standpoint, I felt the different sounds he used across the whole WCD album were unique in comparison to many other Genesis albums. Much of the synthesizer sounds used throughout the 70's were very similar (due in part to the more limited choices of course), and I agree in the 80's-particularly with Abacab, Genesis and Invisible Touch-the synths have a very distinct (and admittedly common for its time) pop-synth sound. When it comes to WCD however, the sounds Tony used were completely different-and IMO just gave all of the songs so much of their own character!

Quote from Schrottrocker

Dreaming While You Sleep I find very convincing, the keyboards really make the foundation for the dark atmosphere of that song.

This made me want to add that my issue is solely with the horrible sound he uses for the attempted "foreboding" lead lines at the start (around 00:14 and again around 03:50) and following the title phrase. The chords he puts behind the guitar power chords in the "all my life" section are very good, subtle and icy to underpin the ghostly, haunting feel the song has at its best, and which also emphasises the clunkiness of the other bits. For me it feels like he's done a lovely painting in cool understated tones then painted a primary-colour stick figure over it.

Quote from Backdrifter

For me it feels like he's done a lovely painting in cool understated tones then painted a primary-colour stick figure over it.

This description is just brilliant and spot on. I love the song though, stick figure and all!

In a more general sense, I think TB was at his best - and one of the best - when his playing blended in with the stellar rhythm section of Mike and Phil, and occasionally as a soloist when the solo felt like it was naturally riding a rollercoaster provided by the band. Think the likes of In The Cage or Home By The Sea. Less so when he played in a busy, brassy style that felt like he was trampling on a stick house. Think the likes of Slippermen and to a certain extent Dreaming While You Sleep.

Hold on My Heart is IMO some of TB's most atmospheric and effectively mood-setting keyboard playing of almost any Genesis song! Simple from a technical standpoint, but beautifully full chords and background sounds create a keyboard part that is more like...a feeling, than a musical performance!

Quote from Dr. John

On WCD I liked some sounds, e.g., the "elephant" and the backing chords in No Son of Mine, all of Fading Lights. And then he picked very underwhelming ones, like the whole instrumental for Living Forever. His picks for sounds on the 2007 tour were also questionnable.

I agree to that 100%. The album had a warm sound and most of the keyboard stuff was good or okay. Subsequent tours seem to be below average. I am neither a musician nor an expert, it's just an observation.

Quote from Backdrifter

EDIT - in fact it's just reminded me, it puts me in mind of Noel's melodramatic keyboard stings in the Ham Radio episode of Frasier, as heard here at around 01:12 just after "the lines have been cut!"

Look out, he’s got a nug!

Quote from Dr. John

What I don't understand is how Tony went many years picking really great keyboard sounds and then lost his touch in later years. For the first 15 years, he wasn't just sticking with old equipment. He would get new keyboards and then use some really nice new sounds. While the sounds he used on the IT album were very much of the moment, I think they were good choices and fit those songs (e.g., on The Brazilian).

On WCD I liked some sounds, e.g., the "elephant" and the backing chords in No Son of Mine, all of Fading Lights. And then he picked very underwhelming ones, like the whole instrumental for Living Forever.

His picks for sounds on the 2007 tour were also questionable.

RE: the first paragraph, I personally felt that his keyboard sounds in the 70's material was actually somewhat limited. Back then they were very defined: Varied mellotron sounds early on-mostly in the PG era but into W&W...the rock organs - those followed him from the beginning, straight thru Duke. Then there was the choir sounding chords for a few albums. As for the lead synthesizer sounds, those were also more or less the same, just programmed differently-with a flatter or brighter sound, different amounts of slide effect, etc. They were all used to great effect of course, but those were basically all of the sounds he used in the 70's for the most part.

Then in the 80's, the synth sounds became VERY much-as you mentioned-of the time, appropriate for the songs and again used to great effect, but I recognized many of those exact sounds on songs by other 80's artists. More to fill the space and accompany, than to create a separate part or solo.

Then we get to WCD. Different synth tech had been released, lots of different sounds and effects that hadn't been heard before. Tony utilized these new sounds very effectively, and IMO that's why WCD sounds like nothing they (or many others at the time) had done before. Some sound choices were hits, and some were misses, but IMO that is less about simply the choices Tony made with his synthesizers, and more on the choices of the band as a whole.

Your comment re: the Turn It On Again Tour synthesizer choices however, I do FULLY agree with! I always thought it was kind of lazy to use the EXACT same lead synthesizer sound for literally all of his songs (i.e. In the Cage, Firth of Fifth, Follow you Follow me, Ripples, Los Endos), and some of the background chords or organ sounds in the older material lacked a certain power that had been displayed with his choices on previous tours (i.e. In the Cage, Afterglow, Firth of Fifth).