What can I say? If you are expecting the songs to be performed the way they should or it used to be, that is not going to happen but who knows? I only begin to have a problem when some fans start saying that it was just like before, I saw several videos of Phil's tour and the comments were disheartening, either that or people are tone deaf.
Jessica Christ on a unicycle mate, I think we've got the message!
What can I say? If you are expecting the songs to be performed the way they should or it used to be, that is not going to happen but who knows? Perhaps they can still pull off something good, they've always been respectful of their audience and I know that limitations are there but I'm sure they'll give their best. Be as it may, I hope you and everybody else truly enjoy it, the fact that I don't care for it is completely irrelevant. I only begin to have a problem when some fans start saying that it was just like before, I saw several videos of Phil's tour and the comments were disheartening, either that or people are tone deaf.
I totally get what your saying. If I go to the concert in December and it blows, I’ll call it like it is. I won’t be one to sugarcoat it. Of course my frame of reference is limited to concert videos. Many fans’ comments on here are much more credible than mine. Thanks for the spirited conversation.
Jessica Christ on a unicycle mate, I think we've got the message!
Yeah, yours has become clear too.
Don't worry about Captain Cheerful there. This'll be your Genesis Live moment and you will enjoy it
It’s all good. Thanks Backdrifter. You going to make it to the concert?
Yeah, yours has become clear too.
Whatever you think that means, my message is that you're laying it on thicker than a brickies' convention!
I'm going to 3 of the UK gigs. I know PC's voice isn't what it was, and he can't stand, and can't drum. It won't be like the Genesis shows I used to go to. But it's probably my last chance to see one of my favourite bands and will enjoy it, seated reduced-voiced Collins and all. For Len it might be literally his only chance of seeing them, he too knows the score so do him a favour and don't piss on his cornflakes, there's a good chap.
It’s all good. Thanks Backdrifter. You going to make it to the concert?
Oh yes indeed - Glasgow, London, London. 2nd London is a birthday treat for my sister, she was dancing around the room when I called and told her.
For Glasgow I've gone nuts and splashed out on the VIP gourmet meal bag-of-goodies front seat package. Admittedly I did squint while booking so I could pretend not to have seen the price but what the hell, one of my favourite bands in one of my favourite cities? Caution thrown to the highest wind, restraint locked in a trunk in the shed.
I totally get what your saying. If I go to the concert in December and it blows, I’ll call it like it is. I won’t be one to sugarcoat it. Of course my frame of reference is limited to concert videos. Many fans’ comments on here are much more credible than mine. Thanks for the spirited conversation.
Always a pleasure and enjoy it.
Oh yes indeed - Glasgow, London, London. 2nd London is a birthday treat for my sister, she was dancing around the room when I called and told her.
For Glasgow I've gone nuts and splashed out on the VIP gourmet meal bag-of-goodies front seat package. Admittedly I did squint while booking so I could pretend not to have seen the price but what the hell, one of my favourite bands in one of my favourite cities? Caution thrown to the highest wind, restraint locked in a trunk in the shed.
That’s really great. I’m happy for your sister too, that’s really cool. That’s awesome about the Glasgow show—hey this could be their last go around right? I’m heading to the first Philly show, bringing my wife and thirteen year old daughter. Also one of my buddies from work who has never seen them live either, and his wife are coming. This will be my daughter’s first ever concert too, can’t wait to see her reaction.
I’m heading to the first Philly show, bringing my wife and thirteen year old daughter. Also one of my buddies from work who has never seen them live either, and his wife are coming. This will be my daughter’s first ever concert too, can’t wait to see her reaction.
Oh man, that sounds like quite the evening. A lovely group meal beforehand maybe? Does your daughter know their work?
At Twickenham in 07 I was near a father and son, the boy was about 12. When they launched into Behind the Lines he looked stunned, tears came to his eyes and there was sheer enjoyment on his face. It was wonderful to see.
Oh man, that sounds like quite the evening. A lovely group meal beforehand maybe? Does your daughter know their work?
At Twickenham in 07 I was near a father and son, the boy was about 12. When they launched into Behind the Lines he looked stunned, tears came to his eyes and there was sheer enjoyment on his face. It was wonderful to see.
Oh yeah. We’re definitely going to grab some dinner beforehand.
I’ve been prepping her when we take car rides places. She’s familiar with some of their 80’s and 90’s music from hearing it on the radio. I’ve been stealthy dropping older tracks on her to see what she likes. I played her Supper’s Ready a couple times and she sits quietly and I can tell she’s absorbing it. She knows Phil Collins used to be the drummer before PG left, so during the 9/8 section I told her—-listen to his drums and Tony’s keyboard, listen how intense this is, it’s incredible. She agreed.
What’s funny is that she said to me how early Peter and Phil sound almost identical. This is coming from a little girl with no frame of reference, I thought that was a very keen observation.
That’s a beautiful father and son moment you witnessed. My hope is that they play a few songs that me and my daughter can sing along to together.
Interesting exchanges above. I'm keeping an open mind. I've never seen a classic lineup, only the CAS tour and I'm really, really looking forward to the show. Everyone knows the deal with Phil but the guys are professionals and well drilled at this stage. They'll have figured out what works and what doesn't. I think it's gonna be great. And if they tweak the voicing on a song - the end of Man On The Corner, for example - who cares? I'm likely going to think it's different, not worse. (Worse would be leaving the thing unchanged and trying to achieve the unachievable).
Liquid Len and Backdrifter - sounds like you guys have phenomenal evenings planned! Hope you enjoy them tremendously. I plumped for some sort of VIP ticket myself but not the top of the range dinner, front row deal as my credit card was starting to smolder. I think somewhere in the front twenty rows. Very strongly considering going to Boston 2 too, a regular ticket.
Interesting exchanges above. I'm keeping an open mind. I've never seen a classic lineup, only the CAS tour and I'm really, really looking forward to the show. Everyone knows the deal with Phil but the guys are professionals and well drilled at this stage. They'll have figured out what works and what doesn't. I think it's gonna be great. And if they tweak the voicing on a song - the end of Man On The Corner, for example - who cares? I'm likely going to think it's different, not worse. (Worse would be leaving the thing unchanged and trying to achieve the unachievable).
Liquid Len and Backdrifter - sounds like you guys have phenomenal evenings planned! Hope you enjoy them tremendously. I plumped for some sort of VIP ticket myself but not the top of the range dinner, front row deal as my credit card was starting to smolder. I think somewhere in the front twenty rows. Very strongly considering going to Boston 2 too, a regular ticket.
Oh man, I bet there are some great eateries in Boston for a pre-gig treat. Credit card having recovered, of course.
Spot-on about the vocals. They are being pragmatic, hence the backing singers. They know how to do this stuff. There was an earlier comment that people should 'lower their expectations' but you're right, they need to change them. It'll be different, and the buzz of being there and seeing them will do the rest.
I've watched many performances (online) from Phil's recent tour, hoping that with practice I might hear some strengthening of his voice. I haven't heard that happen. His range is less than it was for the 2007 tour, which wasn't bad but lacked the power in the upper register. Now he has both less range and power - which is fine and expectable for his age. So I do expect keys to be lowered for him as some were on the 2007 tour. I do expect the back-up singers to potentially cover or support passages that are harder. And I expect songs or sections of songs that benefit from an aggressive vocal to be either absent or at least modified in some way to accommodate where Phil is at.
This is why I was hypothesizing that they could do Man On the Corner without the aggressive octave jump. Sure it would change the song, but I am open to a reinterpretation. Ripples was lovely on the 2007 tour, where Phil took a much gentler approach to the chorus than say on the Duke tour. It still worked well. Many artists reinvent their songs live over time, both to accommodate aging and also because it keeps things fresh for them.
As weird as it is to see 2 backup vocalists in a Genesis tour, there's a reason they're there. While my first gut reaction was "WTF?", I"m actually beginning to turn around and see this addition as one way Genesis can delve deeper into their catalog without having to worry about Phil's vocals. I know that sounds like a weird statement (beef up the lead vocalist's vocals because he can't sing anymore) but if it allows them to thrown in a few surprises, maybe it's not as crazy as it might sound. The drums will definitely be solid, so no worries there. And like all of you, I know nothing lol.
I've watched many performances (online) from Phil's recent tour, hoping that with practice I might hear some strengthening of his voice. I haven't heard that happen. His range is less than it was for the 2007 tour, which wasn't bad but lacked the power in the upper register. Now he has both less range and power - which is fine and expectable for his age. So I do expect keys to be lowered for him as some were on the 2007 tour. I do expect the back-up singers to potentially cover or support passages that are harder. And I expect songs or sections of songs that benefit from an aggressive vocal to be either absent or at least modified in some way to accommodate where Phil is at.
This is why I was hypothesizing that they could do Man On the Corner without the aggressive octave jump. Sure it would change the song, but I am open to a reinterpretation. Ripples was lovely on the 2007 tour, where Phil took a much gentler approach to the chorus than say on the Duke tour. It still worked well. Many artists reinvent their songs live over time, both to accommodate aging and also because it keeps things fresh foI
The loss of power in his voice doesn't bother me much, sure, I wonder how he is going to cope but it applies to over 90% of the vocalists when aging, although it is admittedly dramatic with Phil. I concur that some songs can benefit from a softer approach, although not MoC imo, the dynamic of the song is based in that octave jump. It could work for softer songs, you mentioned Ripples I could add FYFM,
I guess it is how his voice transformed that rubs me the wrong way, it's just too nasal for me.
The loss of power in his voice doesn't bother me much, sure, I wonder how he is going to cope but it applies to over 90% of the vocalists when aging, although it is admittedly dramatic with Phil. I concur that some songs can benefit from a softer approach, although not MoC imo, the dynamic of the song is based in that octave jump. It could work for softer songs, you mentioned Ripples I could add FYFM,
I guess it is how his voice transformed that rubs me the wrong way, it's just too nasal for me.
It is more nasal and I am not exactly sure why. Age sometimes deepens the voice, which often adds a really nice richness to compensate for the loss of range. Phil's voice has changed in tone in multiple ways over time. It was lighter and initially lacked heft early on, then became stronger and lost some of that light touch, it then became warmer, and then became lighter and a bit more nasally as you mention.
There are a number of songs that might fit his voice now. Some would be great to hear - e.g., Blood On the Rooftops, Inside and Out, the full Cinema Show (the high bits are falsetto). We'll have to see what the final setlist looks like.
It is more nasal and I am not exactly sure why. Age sometimes deepens the voice, which often adds a really nice richness to compensate for the loss of range. Phil's voice has changed in tone in multiple ways over time. It was lighter and initially lacked heft early on, then became stronger and lost some of that light touch, it then became warmer, and then became lighter and a bit more nasally as you mention.
There are a number of songs that might fit his voice now. Some would be great to hear - e.g., Blood On the Rooftops, Inside and Out, the full Cinema Show (the high bits are falsetto). We'll have to see what the final setlist looks like.
I guess the only thing that stays consistent in life is change. He’ll compensate for his voice change. Thinking of artists who’s voices have aged gracefully, I love the way Robert Plant sounds now. He’s got this richness to his voice, almost like a soulfulness. His last solo album was wonderful, IMO.
Afterglow would be amazing with proper backing vocals, there are probably other tracks where it would be beneficial to reproduce the backing vocals from the albums, or even add some backing vocal arrangements
Phil's voice has changed in tone in multiple ways over time. It was lighter and initially lacked heft early on, then became stronger and lost some of that light touch, it then became warmer, and then became lighter and a bit more nasally as you mention.
Perhaps there are others but I can't think of any other singer who went through so many changes with his ''instrument' through the years'. I'm not sure he can hit a falsetto at the moment and that was his trademark in the beginning, he had this very pure, high-pitched voice that mingled very well with Peter's. On WCD his voice was already beginning to sound a bit nasal, I guess the more he was losing power the easier he was to lean on his nasal tones. You don't seem to be a fan of his ''screamy'' period, personally I think that was what set him apart and made him world class, before that he was just good, proficient and adequate. It is probably possible to tackle some songs with a different, mellower approach, personally I don't see it happening without the songs suffering badly, particularly when the voice has no warmth and nasal voices plainly don't. I was curious to see how he would do with his material, far less demanding vocally on his tour, I know you can't gain your power back once you lost, it vocal chords just wear off, but the voice, the tone and flexibility can somehow improve. Well, as I said, after having heard a couple of things, I'm just happy he is out there...
I agree with those saying how much his voice changed over the years. Hard to imagine him now singing those falsetto notes behind Peter. It's like his vocal powers increased and hit a peak 1981-1985 where he would scream through some of the material with such a tone and control and could give otherwise amazing vocal performances of lighter material as well. I love that period of his singing. A Mama tour show is worth listening to for his performance alone.
Once he got to 1986 he seemed to lose just a tad of that power. He couldn't scream out every tune and lost his range that one time during Suppers Ready early in the tour and it was scrapped soon after. Even by his own Serious tour they were lowering the key of at least one tune.
Slowly his range decreased but he still had some power to a degree. In 2007 he was still fine to sing even if with less power, but the last decade has been rough on him physically and it shows in his voice. Good for him to say screw it and keep going. I wouldn't be looking for great vocal performances on the coming tour, but likely at least impassioned performances at least.
Makes me wonder why his voice lost the power as it did. I mean, obviously age, but maybe too much screaming and touring? Did the steroid shots have an impact? Who knows, but it's an interesting case.
