[SPOILERS] GENESIS 2021 setlist discussion

Quote from seven-eight

Makes me wonder why his voice lost the power as it did. I mean, obviously age, but maybe too much screaming and touring?

That would be my guess, he wasn't a singer and came late to the microphone, it took him around 4 years to find his voice, when he did he seemed to enjoy it...A lot and probably abused it a bit. Singing Genesis material didn't help, Banks had apparently no mercy on the singers Peter was constantly trying to reach notes beyond his key and it was no different with Phil, who has a completely different voice from Peter's. On top of that, the guy toured a lot, with Genesis and on his own. It must have been exhilarating for him to be able to sing stuff like Mama or TTT, considering he started with For Absent friends and More fool me, radical departure, he sounds like two different people. Finally, he got older and his general health conditions worsened. All this took a toll evidently. The mere fact that he has to sing seated would be a game changer even if he were on top shape, you breath differently and that has an impact on the sound you make.

Don't get me wrong, I thought he was superb in the early 80s on songs that really benefitted from that power. Mama is one of his finest vocal performances. Feeding the Fire is another great performance. And he was terrific on live versions of Abacab, Dodo, and In the Cage among others. However, I did feel he overused that style of his singing on songs that were better served with a softer approach. I prefer the studio version of It's Gonna Get Better, because he switches the falsetto section "Cuz I know..." to full voice in the live setting, which causes that part to lose some of it's delicacy and tenderness.

Quote from Dr. John

However, I did feel he overused that style of his singing on songs that were better served with a softer approach.

Yes, ii was a bit of an overkill sometimes, Afterglow on 3SL springs to mind, even though I enjoy it and I'm in awe of his vocals, one is left wondering whether the wistful nature of the song wouldn't require a more ethereal approach, like on SO for example, only on SO his voice didn't have any particular character. On a positive note though, some new era songs, to me at least, were just about OK because Phil sang them and the way he did. He was able to infuse life and grit into songs that IMHO were really nothing special and therein lies the problem. Those songs were created by and for a singer who had almost unlimited vocal resources at his disposal, how do you deliver them in an acceptable way when that singer is no longer here? He got by in 2007, barely, as you said, I'm curious what they come up with this time, they will have to be really imaginative and inventive because if the answer is taking the songs two keys down it would be rather disappointing.

Quote from Fabrizio

Yes, ii was a bit of an overkill sometimes, Afterglow on 3SL springs to mind, even though I enjoy it and I'm in awe of his vocals, one is left wondering whether the wistful nature of the song wouldn't require a more ethereal approach, like on SO for example, only on SO his voice didn't have any particular character. On a positive note though, some new era songs, to me at least, were just about OK because Phil sang them and the way he did. He was able to infuse life and grit into songs that IMHO were really nothing special and therein lies the problem. Those songs were created by and for a singer who had almost unlimited vocal resources at his disposal, how do you deliver them in an acceptable way when that singer is no longer here? He got by in 2007, barely, as you said, I'm curious what they come up with this time, they will have to be really imaginative and inventive because if the answer is taking the songs two keys down it would be rather disappointing.

Agree that Afterglow lost some of that meditative, contemplative feel as he took a more strident approach to it (but the double drumming in the outro is so killer that I still like later versions).

And I also agree that some slighter songs sounded stronger because he had a strong delivery. That's All and Invisible Touch are examples for me. Sussudio is an example from his solo career.

The key changes alone change the feel of songs for me, so it means that I can be open to other changes that come along with it. If they do Mama, perhaps it will be brooding and haunting with a softer voice instead of the scary and tortured delivery of the original.

Quote from Dr. John

Agree that Afterglow lost some of that meditative, contemplative feel as he took a more strident approach to it (but the double drumming in the outro is so killer that I still like later versions).

And I also agree that some slighter songs sounded stronger because he had a strong delivery. That's All and Invisible Touch are examples for me. Sussudio is an example from his solo career.

The key changes alone change the feel of songs for me, so it means that I can be open to other changes that come along with it. If they do Mama, perhaps it will be brooding and haunting with a softer voice instead of the scary and tortured delivery of the original.

I must admit even Phil's outstanding vocals couldn't make some songs more palatable to me, to this day I still cannot listen to stuff like Sussudio and IT. On Mama, we will have to agree to disagree, if we acknowledge that it is one of Phil's finest performances, the consequence for me is that anything less won't do, there wasn't a single singer around, back in 83 able to sing it like that, not even Bono, to mention a powerhouse with some remarkable pipes. I wish, in light of the current, objective limitations they would have done something completely different. They don't have a real unplugged album for instance and it would have been nice to see them all seated, like in the beginning, not only Phil, with an orchestra for the more majestic, epic songs and a stripped down, acoustic arrangement for the others. Then perhaps, thin vocals wouldn't have mattered so much.

I haven't seen this talked about yet on the thread, but one thing I've noticed from watching several videos of Phil's Not Dead Yet tour is that the quality of his vocals has been a bit inconsistent between different legs of the tour. I was watching his 2018 Philadelphia show and his vocals on some songs were not too far off from where he was on the First Final Farewell tour (albeit transposed down), even on some more challenging songs like Hang In Long Enough and I Missed Again. Meanwhile, several of his 2017 and 2019 shows had him missing quite a few notes and having to defer to his background singers, sometimes in the middle of a vocal line. Also, his 2016 pre-tour announcement performance of In the Air Tonight at the US Open had him just about nailing one of the "screams" at the end (although he was standing up during that performance). Hopefully, he's whipped his voice into shape and improved his consistency for this upcoming tour, but I suppose I can't afford to be picky. I'm a Gen Z Genesis fan who missed out in 2007, and I'm determined to see them live at least once in my lifetime, warts and all.

It’ll be a great show, no doubt about that. Yes it will be different, better in some ways, not so good in others but well worth going to. It will be a great light show, great material to choose from and a lot of talent on stage with an enthusiastic crowd. I suspect it will start in the US and get to us in the UK next spring with maybe a couple of tweaks to the setlist and a DVD to follow. Phil’s voice will be up and down and on and off but the backing singers will cover that and the drums are in good hands. Be interesting to see what time has done to Tony’s dexterity and I don’t think Mike will push himself unnecessarily but Darryl and Nic will be top flight. What’s not to like?

Quote from Liquid Len

here is a whole bunch of us fans in our late thirties to early to mid 40’s who never got to see them live because we were probably too young in ‘92, and missed the boat in ‘07

I expect more people to go obviously but I feel that's probably the demographic being targeted and understandably the more enthusiastic about it.

Quote from Fabrizio

I expect more people to go obviously but I feel that's probably the demographic being targeted and understandably the more enthusiastic about it.

I've seen other demographics on here expressing a lot of enthusiasm. I haven't seen anyone not acknowledge what the known issues with their age and Phil's voice are. I see a tiny group of mostly one on here relentlessly peddling the doom laden message that the show will be terrible and never missing an opportunity to express it either directly or worse, indirectly such as in the above quoted internet belch.

Quote from thewatcher

I I see a tiny group of mostly one on here relentlessly peddling the doom laden message that the show will be terrible and never missing an opportunity to express it either directly or worse, indirectly such as in the above quoted internet belch.

Ok, I'll have ONE go at trying to reply because your comment is out of line, uncalled for and bordering on personal. I dare you to find one post of mine in which I said the show will be terrible. I said, on various occasions, I'm not interested, I explained why, I also expressed the wish for everybody to enjoy it and I was being sincere, I also said that I'm happy they are out there, what I think about it takes second place. Is it peddling? No more than other people reiterating, on various occasions that it will be great no matter what, I read those comments, I don't agree with them and some repeat this a lot but I don't feel the need to call people delusional or acritical. Hate to think I might be bursting somebody's bubble here, because when I like something I really do not care what others might think. Am I being reiterative? Perhaps but I dare you to find a single member here who hasn't expressed the same opinion more than once, over the years. This is a forum, we are having a debate, you might not like some opinions, the same goes for me, either debate politely, or ignore them as I do and I do so often. You are more than welcome to reply, if you do, I'd appreciate you debate the merits of what I'm saying and refrain from snarky, personal comments. I could easily tell you where to go, your comment definitely warrants it, I always choose not to do that over the internet, a bit too easy for my taste. Be respectful and polite, if not I'll be more than happy to spare you the tedium of my posts.

Quote from Fabrizio

Ok, I'll have ONE go at trying to reply because your comment is out of line, uncalled for and bordering on personal. I dare you to find one post of mine in which I said the show will be terrible. I said, on various occasions, I'm not interested, I explained why, I also expressed the wish for everybody to enjoy it and I was being sincere, I also said that I'm happy they are out there, what I think about it takes second place. Is it peddling? No more than other people reiterating, on various occasions that it will be great no matter what, I read those comments, I don't agree with them and some repeat this a lot but I don't feel the need to call people delusional or acritical. Hate to think I might be bursting somebody's bubble here, because when I like something I really do not care what others might think. Am I being reiterative? Perhaps but I dare you to find a single member here who hasn't expressed the same opinion more than once, over the years. This is a forum, we are having a debate, you might not like some opinions, the same goes for me, either debate politely, or ignore them as I do and I do so often. You are more than welcome to reply, if you do, I'd appreciate you debate the merits of what I'm saying and refrain from snarky, personal comments. I could easily tell you where to go, your comment definitely warrants it, I always choose not to do that over the internet, a bit too easy for my taste. Be respectful and polite, if not I'll be more than happy to spare you the tedium of my posts.

Bordering on personal? Read my post again FFS. Maybe sit down and take a few big breaths first.

Quote from thewatcher

Bordering on personal? Read my post again FFS. Maybe sit down and take a few big breaths first.

Right, because ''internet belch'' is not offensive at all. I breathed, it's still out of line.

Quote from thewatcher

indirectly such as in the above quoted internet belch.

(John Peel voice):

"Next up - it's not The Fall, but a great band nonetheless and I'm fairly certain this is at the right speed, here's Internet Belch".

Quote from Liquid Len

How cool would Dodo/Lurker be as an opener?

Are they rehearsing that? It is one of the best songs on Abacab imo.

Quote from Liquid Len

How cool would Dodo/Lurker be as an opener?

Very cool and aside from an old classic like Squonk, I’d love to see that open the shows.

Quote from Liquid Len

How cool would Dodo/Lurker be as an opener?

Very.

Quote from Liquid Len

How cool would Dodo/Lurker be as an opener?

That would be really awesome!

Quote from vl1

The endless whining and digs (at the best band around in my lifetime) by so called fans is tiresome.

Don't like the prospective setlist, don't go

Don't like the fact that songs might be in a lower key, or phil's vocals might not be as powerful as they once were, or he's gonna be sat in a chair - grow up, he's 70..... What is the point in debating it, there is no point.

I saw not dead yet live, it was fine, the vocals were fine. Even if they weren't, I'd still go.

I just happened to listen to a couple of hours of radio today, with current hits, my goodness it was drivel, We were so lucky to have this music in comparison to the youth of today. Followed it up by an hour of PCs TV appearances over the years, halfway through I thought, boy he's done a lot in his life.

Don't see the point in this thread, we have no influence on the setlist, so whats the point in daydreaming, and arguing over nothing.

Display More

A mix of agreeing/disagreeing with this. Nothing wrong with expressing opinions but I agree there's no point going on and on about PC's voice. Of course it's not what it was, we all know that. If someone can't hack listening to it, that's understandable, enough said. This won't be like Genesis gigs we remember, it'll be different, but it'll be fine.

You kind of expect this sort of thread ahead of a tour and while yes it's ultimately pointless I think it's ok for people excited about the tour to indulge in a bit of fantasy and speculation. I doubt anyone thinks the thread is in any way influencing the actual set.

I'm completely out of touch with the charts and I assume it'll largely be stuff of no interest to me. But there are plenty of very good acts around who don't find their way into the chart. Most of my current music listening is stuff new to me by current acts and which I like very much.