Lack of Archival Releases or expanded editions

    Hello, my first post here, Recently in another forum someone started a thread with the same topic.

    As a fan I have always believed that Genesis has been a very careful band with the handling of their discography. To many it may not seem that way.

    There has always been a kind of revisionism among fans about released material and what is supposedly in the archives to be released. What is in the archives does not always necessarily represent what a band or artist wants to see published of their work.

    And in recent years the explosion of reissues, deluxe editions, remasters, megaboxes... with all the useless paraphernalia that sometimes accompanies them, doesn't always turn out to be as good as it seems. Of course everyone has the absolute freedom to spend their money on whatever they want.

    With Genesis the story has been the opposite and I think that so far with everything and the remixes, the three boxes, the archives sets 1 and 2... wow they have been generous without pretending to offer something that does not have the quality to be released or squeeze the fans.


    When one reads about all the bootlegs, outtakes and live recordings that many fans know, many of these are not of quality to be released, others are open mic recordings that the band made during rehearsals without being intended for an official release...


    Sometimes you have to trust the artist's judgment...

    Welcome to the forum danielbravo!


    I agree that it is totally fine for an artist to be choosy about what gets released. If they are not comfortable with it, then they don't need to release it. I also agree that there is a fair bit of stuff being released that might satisfy curiosity for one or two listens, but does not maintain interest over the long term. It's the sort of stuff that might be nice to have available for streaming or download, but is not essential for a box set or something more formal.


    What is unclear to me is whether the lack of any other material being released is due to the band actively not wanting it released or simply not caring about getting it out to the public. Are the outtakes for Seconds Out really poor and they would be embarrassed to release them? Or is the band simply not that interested in figuring out if there are any outtakes worth adding on to some kind of Seconds Out deluxe edition?

    Quote from Dr. John

    Welcome to the forum danielbravo!


    I agree that it is totally fine for an artist to be choosy about what gets released. If they are not comfortable with it, then they don't need to release it. I also agree that there is a fair bit of stuff being released that might satisfy curiosity for one or two listens, but does not maintain interest over the long term. It's the sort of stuff that might be nice to have available for streaming or download, but is not essential for a box set or something more formal.


    What is unclear to me is whether the lack of any other material being released is due to the band actively not wanting it released or simply not caring about getting it out to the public. Are the outtakes for Seconds Out really poor and they would be embarrassed to release them? Or is the band simply not that interested in figuring out if there are any outtakes worth adding on to some kind of Seconds Out deluxe edition?

    It all depends on your perspective, so in one way or another everyone is "right"

    If there is something where Genesis is possibly still indebted to their fans, it is releasing the entire discography with the original mixes, with a proper remaster and preserving all the sonic dynamics of those recordings.

    This would be a great gift!

    We already have the remixes for something like 15 years ? I think. And well, without going into whether you like them or not, since that same period of time the original mixes have not been offered... the new mixes became the rule for all reissues.

    And yet so far outside of this, there doesn't seem to be much more to offer from the Genesis offices.


    Perhaps from one moment to another we will be surprised and I hope it will be pleasantly.

    For now I try to enjoy what we have

    thanks for the quote

    Quote from danielbravo

    If there is something where Genesis is possibly still indebted to their fans, it is releasing the entire discography with the original mixes, with a proper remaster and preserving all the sonic dynamics of those recordings.

    Okay, so you can't walk into a shop and easily pick up an original mix of, say, Foxtrot.

    But the original mix CDs, the Definitive Remasters and the Nick Davis remixes are all readily available online. I'm not sure there is anything more for the band to do in this respect.


    As for other unreleased material, that's another matter entirely! :)


    Cheers,

    RS

    Well, Seen from your point of view, you are right. I already have the cds (the remixes, the old Virgin cds and the definitive editions)

    But we know that they are not perfect (each with their strengths and weaknesses)

    I still think that catalog deserves to be reissued with the original mixes and with another sonic treatment. Just that ... an opinion, thanks for the post

    Good vibes!

    Above all, there is a lack of new stuff for fans - good quality videos and bootlegs from rehearsals. Virtually from every era. And thanks to a lot of old fans, Genesis is not really bad - we have a lot of bootlegs from virtually every tour - but as for the video and rehearsals - it really is slightly weakness. I can't regret there isn't a good 1983 or 1986 video. Then Genesis was really at its peak. There really is a need for change here. You don't need team members for that - they take audio and video engineers, one video is half a year, a year worked - and we have a release in a year and a half. It's even worse with bootlegs from rehearsals or videos from them. If it wasn't for this cameraman's wife, we would never have gotten this Living Forever. There are very enthusiastic comments on this video on Youtube and I hope someone in the band is reading it - and they will be persuaded to release some bootlegs or a rehearsal and concert video sometime. For now, let the sound engineers handle it.

    I have to confess, when I saw this thread bumped up my heart sank a little. But I was relieved and pleased to see your pragmatic comments.


    Most fans like us on this board would love to see various bits and pieces released, such as bootlegs, rehersals etc. I certainly would. But I think some here forget who this band is, or act almost like they don't really know who they are and what their stance is. Or they do know, but somehow think that now they're retired they will undergo a miraculous transformation and decide to clear out their archives of every scrap of material. Or that they will actually read fans' comments on boards like this, or under youtube videos, and think "oh well we'd better get all this stuff out of the cellar and put it out there. Just look at these fan comments!"


    The occasional snippet finding its way out through other means is the most we'll get. It's blatantly obvious that the band and their management are NOT going to be the source of any such releases.

    Abandon all reason

    Like 1

    I will say this. I will write in general - I'm away from home. For several reasons, I think something else will come from the band - but I think it will be in 2-3 years.


    First of all - due to the band's popularity rising again after The Last Domino tour, young people from different countries, my age 20 30 years old- and outside of England -will want to learn more about the band's work from different years. And we know that apart from studio albums and a few videos, there is nothing too much. If not for Simon's effort on Genesis Movement and dozens of older fans, nothing !!!!! so we wouldn't have. The band should be aware that young fans would like to know some unknown material. 😊


    Second - band members are generally retired and therefore may have more time to think about releasing something. Always a retired man looks at many things differently. What is Tony Smith going to do with this whole catalog of concert or rehearsal bootlegs or videos? Will he take to the grave? He himself promised in March 2022 that he would "organize the archives" and I am sure that in a few years there will be a few more unique items. Plus, you really don't need a team member to release something. 😊 They take a few music engineers - they get an order from the band, for example, to improve the picture and sound of a concert, for example in Toronto on September 22, 1986 - a year, one and a half work and this is released in a year and a half. But it has to be done specifically. We also know from the 2004 fan chat that Phil has ALL attempts bootlegs at Genesis. Here, Phil's manager and his entourage should somehow convince him to release some of them. 😊 The task is very hard, but none of us are doing it. 😊


    Third - I find Phil and Tony especially - and their manager - perfectionists, which is evident in almost every interview. Apparently 15 years ago (someone wrote) - Tony and Mike were supposed to say in an interview that they don't want to publish "nothing perfect". And if, for example, in this movie, Living Forever, they saw that people were crazy about it, they would see that even if this video has some small imperfections (it's great, but e.g. Phil peeked at the text several times) - it's people including me - would like more songs. The band needs to know that fans love their rehearsal songs and don't give a damn that Phil got the lyrics wrong or Tony didn't play any sound. 😊 It doesn't really matter. 😊


    Of course, I know that the band has a reserved attitude towards releasing something new. We'll probably never get everything, but it's important to have a little more. However, I agree that in the current situation, you have to ask older collectors (who certainly are) to release what they have - and certainly have various concerts. Just the type of cameraman. 😊 99% broken 100% that it does not have a single track. 😊 For now, let's wait for it and I think that some collectors and cameramen will also appear with time. 😊 Besides, I know from one of the internet users that in the near future there will be 2 more Genesis audio "huge surprises" from the 1977 and 1987 trials. 😊

    Quote from Backdrifter

    I have to confess, when I saw this thread bumped up my heart sank a little. But I was relieved and pleased to see your pragmatic comments.


    Most fans like us on this board would love to see various bits and pieces released, such as bootlegs, rehersals etc. I certainly would. But I think some here forget who this band is, or act almost like they don't really know who they are and what their stance is. Or they do know, but somehow think that now they're retired they will undergo a miraculous transformation and decide to clear out their archives of every scrap of material. Or that they will actually read fans' comments on boards like this, or under youtube videos, and think "oh well we'd better get all this stuff out of the cellar and put it out there. Just look at these fan comments!"


    The occasional snippet finding its way out through other means is the most we'll get. It's blatantly obvious that the band and their management are NOT going to be the source of any such releases.

    :thumbup: YES !

    I had never heard any of the songs on this, so although it's in no way unreleased or 'archival' Genesis, it did make me realize that the output related to the band is enormous, and much bigger than most bands. You could easily have fooled me into thinking these were actual lost Genesis songs. I'd love an 8 disc version of Abacab (album, outtakes and rarities on 2 disks, unreleased remastered gig on 2, extra live snippets and rehearsals on another, dvd of tour/documentary, and a final disc of pictures of the menus at the restaurants the band are at while on tour) or whatever but it will never happen and that's fine-ish. Happy to take the bits that show up from now and then like the Live Forever rehearsal. But it seems there's a lot of stuff that sure sounds like Genesis that I haven't heard and maybe others haven't yet either. Strong Stagnation vibes off God Of I Saw Her Now:


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    Quote from Backdrifter

    So what actually is this?

    Seems to me someone put together a handful of mostly ant Phillips and Steve Hackett tracks where at least two other members of Genesis played/sang, ie 3 members of the band. And the songs are all 1974-77 releases. Beyond that, I know nothing of the songs themselves, such as whether they were on main albums or obscure b sides. Either way, I found it a pleasant listen and to my ears, very Genesis like, albeit very much the softer/more pastoral side.

    I hope one day they will at least re issue the 2007 sets, if anyone has any concrete arguments of why that wouldn’t be a good idea I’d love to read them. I nearly bought them the other month but the seller wanted to much dollar, to find out two weeks later that he had dropped his price to what i offered him and he sold them within 30 Mins ( was pretty gutted I can tell you ). These box sets were signed off and agreed in 2007 so why not revisit them again. Looking on Discogs vinyl albums are re issued time and time again but why the small sacd box sets haven’t is anyone guess!.

    The band said that when recording the follow-up to Duke, they stopped and decided to start afresh as they were beginning to repeat themselves, hence the cleaner and more 'stark' approach that resulted in Abacab. Has there ever been any sniff of what they were working on and then abandoned?

    Abandon all reason

    Quote from Backdrifter

    The band said that when recording the follow-up to Duke, they stopped and decided to start afresh as they were beginning to repeat themselves, hence the cleaner and more 'stark' approach that resulted in Abacab. Has there ever been any sniff of what they were working on and then abandoned?

    great question, I’ve often wondered about that

    Quote from Thelawnmower

    great question, I’ve often wondered about that

    Indeed. I recall them saying it sounded "too much like the previous three albums". Many here will think "So? What's wrong with that?!" I think they did the right thing, but that doesn't mean I'm not at least curious about what they produced before making that decision.


    On a tangent, one of the "starting to sound too samey" things they said was "as usual, the tambourine on the chorus" which left me wondering when they ever actually did that! Did they?

    Abandon all reason

    I agree, the perfect album for them at that point. I have seen cds adverstised from the sessions but they seem to have early versions of the Abacab tracks e.g the long Abacab and the working titles of other tracks. I suppose it may be that they didn’t throw everything away but went back to ideas and completely re-arranged them to make new songs. However I’ve always understood it as throwing everything out and starting from scratch

    Quote from Backdrifter

    I have to confess, when I saw this thread bumped up my heart sank a little. But I was relieved and pleased to see your pragmatic comments.


    Most fans like us on this board would love to see various bits and pieces released, such as bootlegs, rehersals etc. I certainly would. But I think some here forget who this band is, or act almost like they don't really know who they are and what their stance is. Or they do know, but somehow think that now they're retired they will undergo a miraculous transformation and decide to clear out their archives of every scrap of material. Or that they will actually read fans' comments on boards like this, or under youtube videos, and think "oh well we'd better get all this stuff out of the cellar and put it out there. Just look at these fan comments!"


    The occasional snippet finding its way out through other means is the most we'll get. It's blatantly obvious that the band and their management are NOT going to be the source of any such releases.

    Very true. And I do think that as fans of the band we should be grateful that unlike certain other artists Genesis has never been obsessed with blocking either studio recordings or bootlegs on YouTube. I just listened to the Detroit 1977 show over the weekend and it sounded great.