King Crimson

    Come on in if you want to discuss KC.


    A bit of a chat started up in an unrelated thread so I thought I'd continue it here. I remember in the 70s my brother getting some KC stuff on the recommendation of a friend, and that got me into them. There was something slightly unsettling about some of the music, and I liked that. I don't think I consciously thought of it in that way, but I now recognise that was part of the appeal. I loved the 80s incarnation and have more mixed feelings about the 90s/00s stuff but still like it. I've been seeing them since they restarted touring 3 years ago, and have two shows to look forward to this autumn, Glasgow and Edinburgh back to back. I'm delighted they've been introducing more 90s and now 80s tracks into the set.

    Abandon all reason

    I always have to struggle with King Crimson. I have In The Court Of The Crimson King, which is a milestone. I really do like it, but why did they have to spoil the good overall impression with the weird stuff on Moonchild? Really annoying.


    I also have Red, which is great but I cannot listen to it too often. Have to be in the mood for it.


    The third one, I have, is The Power To Believe, which some how leaves me cold.


    King Crimson and Van der Graaf Generator are the two major prog acts, that give me a real challenge....

    First we learned to walk on water.

    Then we tried something harder.

    - Red Seven -

    Like 1

    Blacksword wrote:

    Of the 'Three of perfect pair' trio of albums, I'm actually quite fond of Beat, despite it arguably being the most commercial of the set. The title track on TOOPP is 80's KC at its best though.


    Interesting, I never thought of Beat in that way. I love the "despite"! Yeah I love the TOAPP title track. Industry and Dig Me are firm favourites as well.

    Abandon all reason

    I do like Crimson quite a lot but, for me, the early stuff is quite repetitious. After the first album, they didn't seem to do anything interesting until Red. When they returned in the 80s, though, that's when I feel they really started to make their best music. Was Discipline their first "comeback" album? With Adrian Belew? Love that record.

    After Genesis, and alongside Floyd, KC are among my favourite prog rock bands. Favoruite albums are Red and Lizard. I like the darkness and the organised chaos of the 70's music, and the slick, experimental but accessable sound of their 80's releases. Fripps approach to making music still sounds refreshing to me after all these years. I see Van Der Graff also mentioned as a 'challenging' band. I love VDGG for similar reasons as for KC, but yes VDGG are often not easy on the ear!


    From Daryl Hall and Debbie Harry, to The Orb and The Future Sound of London, Fripp is recognised as a groundbreaking musician and ideas man, and a worthy collaborator. I have tickets to see KC in London this November. Can't wait!

    I'm a fan of all eras of Crimson.

    I recall when Discipline came out, I thought, "wow, this is brilliant, this is their best album ever" (to this day, I still rank it No. 1).

    And then I started playing it to friends saying, you've got to hear this new album.

    Of course, their familiarity with KC was limited to ITCOTCK.

    I recall their reaction - one friend told me, "I can't believe you like this."

    They just couldn't get past Adrian Belew's voice.


    My biggest regret was not seeing them on that tour when I had the opportunity.

    None of my friends wanted to go see them, and back then, in my mid teens, the idea of going by myself to a concert was just out of the question.


    As it turns out, the one time I did go see them which was in Nov. 2015, I didn't even ask anyone. I went by myself and had a thoroughly enjoyable evening.

    In fact I now have a nice memento in that the Live in Toronto release that came out a couple years ago was recorded the night I was there.

    I could never understand any objection to Belew's voice. He's a fine singer. Love his work with Zappa too!


    I bet those three 80's albums upset a lot of old school KC fans at the time, but equally I bet many of them grew to love them, once they figured out was Fripp was doing.

    Quote from Blacksword

    ...


    I bet those three 80's albums upset a lot of old school KC fans at the time, but equally I bet many of them grew to love them, once they figured out was Fripp was doing.

    I can see how someone might find the industrial, guitar-based sound of Discipline a bit jarring if they are only familiar with the early mellotron-soaked albums.

    But I didn't think Discipline was that far of a leap from the Larks Tongue to Red era that preceded it.

    Quote from slowdancer

    I also have Red, which is great but I cannot listen to it too often. Have to be in the mood for it.


    The third one, I have, is The Power To Believe, which some how leaves me cold.


    King Crimson and Van der Graaf Generator are the two major prog acts, that give me a real challenge....

    This completely mirrors my experience with KC. I do love Discipline though.

    I agree slowdancer. 2 highly regarded bands, but sometimes can be difficult to appreciate with their complicated sounds etc. Personally I'm more into the melodies of music. I would rather enjoy what I'm hearing rather then find it a challenge.

    Quote from Noni

    I agree slowdancer. 2 highly regarded bands, but sometimes can be difficult to appreciate with their complicated sounds etc. Personally I'm more into the melodies of music. I would rather enjoy what I'm hearing rather then find it a challenge.

    Completely fair enough. I like a mix, I'll enjoy anything from chart pop through to the darkest most terrifying extremes of KC and VDGG, and even beyond into the often unfathomable recesses of latter-day Scott Walker. Obviously I love settling back to drink in familiar and melodic stuff but I do occasionally actually enjoy having my tolerance stretched a bit! I find it gives shape and scope to my listening.

    Abandon all reason

    Like 2

    BTW, I think that Fripp, aside from being a brilliant guitarist is a marketing/advertising genius. When you read his interviews about his music, what it is about, what he wants to achieve it literally makes you want to run out and buy that album. Then, personally, when I actually get to listen, I don't always find what he was talking about. It is most likely me, although Bruford said on couple of occasions that he is full of you know what but he is great describing and talking about his music.

    Quote from StillCan'tDance

    I do like Crimson quite a lot but, for me, the early stuff is quite repetitious. After the first album, they didn't seem to do anything interesting until Red. When they returned in the 80s, though, that's when I feel they really started to make their best music. Was Discipline their first "comeback" album? With Adrian Belew? Love that record.

    I must be one of the few who doesn't get along with the first album all that well. It's regarded as such a classic and I've heard others say it was pretty much downhill from there but it doesn't click with me. I did think they were repetitious with their second album which in some ways felt like a re-tread of the debut but it's Poseidon that I actually prefer. I even prefer the artwork - as a kid I was unsettled by that one with the pirate hat.


    But I didn't find them repetitious over the ensuing albums and I really like Larks-Starless-Red sequence a lot, that was a great line-up for those albums.

    Abandon all reason

    Like 1
    Quote from Backdrifter

    I must be one of the few who doesn't get along with the first album all that well. It's regarded as such a classic and I've heard others say it was pretty much downhill from there but it doesn't click with me. I did think they were repetitious with their second album which in some ways felt like a re-tread of the debut but it's Poseidon that I actually prefer. I even prefer the artwork - as a kid I was unsettled by that one with the pirate hat.


    But I didn't find them repetitious over the ensuing albums and I really like Larks-Starless-Red sequence a lot, that was a great line-up for those albums.

    You have to think of ITCOTCK in the context of the time. Nomone else was doing rock music like that in 1969, although some were starting to progress beyond R&R and R&B. KC's debut was arguably the first actual prog rock album, so it's a landmark in that respect. It was, by all accounts an enormous inspiration to Genesis. The follow up In the Wake of Posseidon gets a bad rap from those who adore the debut, and it is more of the same, but I think some of the songs are better. The ttle track is a masterpiece as is Pictues of a City. Some of Lakes best vocal work was with KC, IMO and not ELP.

    From the pre Red phase of the band, the only album I can take or leave is Starless & Bible Black. Lizard and Red are probably joint faves.

    Quote from Blacksword

    You have to think of ITCOTCK in the context of the time. Nomone else was doing rock music like that in 1969, although some were starting to progress beyond R&R and R&B. KC's debut was arguably the first actual prog rock album, so it's a landmark in that respect. It was, by all accounts an enormous inspiration to Genesis.

    You're absolutely right, I completely see that. It was a groundbreaking album, no question. Not to mention hotly anticipated, as they'd already garnered a fearsome live reputation. I didn't mean to suggest it doesn't deserve its plaudits. While I recognise all you say, I still can't get along with the album. Perhaps Schizoid excepted. Even then I prefer the incendiary version on USA.

    Abandon all reason

    Quote from Backdrifter

    You're absolutely right, I completely see that. It was a groundbreaking album, no question. Not to mention hotly anticipated, as they'd already garnered a fearsome live reputation. I didn't mean to suggest it doesn't deserve its plaudits. While I recognise all you say, I still can't get along with the album. Perhaps Schizoid excepted. Even then I prefer the incendiary version on USA.

    Yeah, I rarely listen to it these days. I still give In the wake of Posseidon a spin form time to time. Moonchild and I talk to the wind are pretty weak tunes IMO, but certainly Schizoid, Epitaph and the title track still do it for me.

    Quote from Blacksword

    Yeah, I rarely listen to it these days. I still give In the wake of Posseidon a spin form time to time. Moonchild and I talk to the wind are pretty weak tunes IMO, but certainly Schizoid, Epitaph and the title track still do it for me.

    A few people remarked how they found that the pacing and song variety are very similar on ITCOTCK and ITWOP, and I agree. It was like Poseidon was a "variation on a theme" for Court.


    While "Moonchild" and "I Talk To The Wind" are not their most successfully creative songs, they do fit the era when the album was released. They don't bother me so much (yes, the noodling on the end of "Moonchild" does go on a bit - having said that, nothing shows how much music was hidden by source tape noise than when Robert finally found the original master of the album than the properly remastered "jam" (I hesitate to call it that, but I already used "noodling")).


    Frankly, the lyrics of ITTTW amuse me and make me giggle - and we can always use a laugh sometimes, eh? ^^

    Stepping out the back way, hoping nobody sees...

    Edited once, last by OneForTheVine ().

    Like 2

    I've re-jigged my KC compilation across two discs and kept the 70s and 80s-90s-00s eras separate. I felt I didn't want them mixed together.


    70s:


    The Nightwatch

    Ladies Of The Road

    Cat Food

    Sailor’s Tale

    Book Of Saturday

    Fallen Angel

    Peace – A Theme

    Red

    Lament

    Lark’s Tongues In Aspic Part II

    Prince Rupert’s Lament

    Starless

    21st Century Schizoid Man (live)

    Prelude: Song Of The Gulls


    80s-90s-00s


    Waiting Man

    Happy With What You Have To Be Happy With

    Coda: I Have A Dream

    Dangerous Curves

    Three of a Perfect Pair

    People/Radio I

    Meltdown

    The Power to Believe I

    The Power to Believe II

    The ConstruKction Of Light

    Indiscipline

    Sleepless

    Eyes Wide Open

    Dinosaur

    Thela Hun Gingeet

    Coda Marine 475

    Dig Me

    Abandon all reason

    No Islands on the 70s list? I used to love that song, I have to go back and listen to it, it's been too long.