Are Genesis becoming un uncool? Or is it me.?

Those last few posts were very uplfiting & positive. Thanks everyone.

Genesis suffered because of Phils Solo success, Genesis also succeeded because of Phils Solo success.

At school in late 80s early 90s I was always laughed at for liking Genesis and Phil, yet when ever we did music, In The Air Tonight was THE song everyone loved and wanted to do.

I think Invisible Touch (SONG) and album, is where a big split occurred between cheesy pop songs and great music in people's minds backed up with Phil being everywhere, it probably was just to much of him and so easy to knock.

Phil and Genesis in the last 10 years have definitely become very appreciated and loved by young & older fans.

There were so many people at the Genesis concerts under 25 (especially females) that it shows that quality wins eventually and new people will discover the group.

That's why it's important Tony Smith gets the unreleased live albums out and bring in more new fans, because the band is still strong, whether they play again or not.

During their pop phase, Phil was front and centre and he had a bigger influence on their band material than he had had during the 1970s. I really view this as similar to the change in Marillion when Fish left (although Phil didn't leave until later) and although some fans liked both incarnations, many of us were left behind. Jesus and Dance are lightyears away from Watcher and Vine and I think this is why there has always been a clamour by older fans for a collaboration with Peter and Steve. Certainly during the 1980s their concerts were very pop heavy, with the classical material languishing as the 'old medley'.

Quote from choccy

Genesis suffered because of Phils Solo success, Genesis also succeeded because of Phils Solo success.

Not sure what you mean here?

Genesis survived and became successful only because they viewed their music to the masses. Popular music was booming and needed those hits. They steered away from the prog routes that established their name and moved more commercially that sold loads of records.

Phil was not a culprit and maybe it did allow listeners to enjoy his solo work better than Genesis would of done without Phil? If you get my drift! 🤪

😁

Quote from choccy

That's why it's important Tony Smith gets the unreleased live albums out and bring in more new fans, because the band is still strong, whether they play again or not.

Oh for crying out loud... this again🤦‍♂️

It seems this is going to be crowbarred in everywhere.

Quote from Noni

Phil was not a culprit

Pity this point has to be continuously re-made. All three band members have repeatedly stated they all took the band in the direction they went in, logically and blatantly obviously. But as usual, certain kinds of fans refuse to believe them - the actual band themselves that is, by the way - and insist on pinning what they see as undesirable entirely on PC. By this stage they're presumably never going to be deflected from that misguided view. Oh well.

Here’s a nice reaction video from a young fan to Dreaming While You Sleep live (dig her deep southern accent y’all )

Quote from thefarmer

I have a go at Abba because 1. I genuinely dislike them but 2. and more importantly everyone else seems to like them. There's loads of bands far worse it's just that everyone else including Mrs Farmer ( and we have the Gold CD) likes them , so I know I'm in for it when I mention them

Given their massive success and huge popularity it's understandable that it can feel as though it's you against the whole world for not liking them, but it's just an impression based on their global reach. Believe me, you're not alone. For me they're in that category that Bob Dylan and Kate Bush occupy: I completely get why people like them so much, and I have great respect and admiration for what they did, but apart from a few songs their stuff doesn't click with me.

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I think a lot of prog bands fans quite like the idea that their favourite bands are cutting edge, underground and the latest thing and are conscious of cool/uncool and get a little embarrassed to admit to liking something that that the fashion police have derided

I'm not sure about that. I tend to get the impression prog band fans are largely fine with knowing their tastes are considered "uncool", accept it and in fact they don't really care - and indeed nor should they. If anything, in my experience the average prog fan would more likely shy away from anything that's considered cool, underground and cutting-edge. With exceptions of course plus, as we've said, there are the 'prog apologists'.

I like that phrase 'the Fashion Police'. In the manner of "is this your vehicle, sir? Licence and registration please" I imagine a Fashion Constable pulling someone over - "Excuse me sir, are these your clothes? Identification and Spotify playlist if you would please, sir."

The aforementioned Dire Straits are similar for me, in that I absolutely see the appeal, and there's the occasional one or two I don't mind but it's largely not for me. One of my favourite films is Local Hero and I thought Knopler's score was about as near-perfect as could be, and one of the best examples of the music dovetailing so well with the film. Straits were sort of the Coldplay of their day in that despite or because of their huge popularity and success it was often deemed deeply 'uncool' to like them and fans were dismissed as unadventurous middle-class likers of dull safe music suited only to comfy dinner parties.

With them, Coldplay and Genesis I'm reminded of a comment by a journalist in Sounds in reference to Rush: "Hugely successful, yet apparently liked by no-one."

Quote from Noni

Not sure what you mean here?

Genesis survived and became successful only because they viewed their music to the masses. Popular music was booming and needed those hits. They steered away from the prog routes that established their name and moved more commercially that sold loads of records.

Phil was not a culprit and maybe it did allow listeners to enjoy his solo work better than Genesis would of done without Phil? If you get my drift! 🤪

😁

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Genesis suffered at times because people could not distinguish PC from Genesis and all they assumed was its another PC song.

People were sick off Phil by the time 1992 came around and Phil took the hit for the apparent Pop songs that Genesis were putting out and of course it wasn't on him in reality and on the plus side, PC success also brought other people to Genesis as well, so it was a give and take kinda thing with the general public.

I certainly feel Genesis have been more popular all round and appreciated more since 2007 through to present than perhaps 1992 -1998 period.

Quote from thefarmer

Believe it or not I told a colleague I was going to see Genesis last year and she had never heard of them! ( My guess is she is in her late 30s) When I said " what really, they're one of the biggest bands ever " she said name me songs I might know ." "Well err Invisible Touch was their biggest hit ...err they weren't really a hits band err they had a lot of hits.. FMFY.. LOC... and they're really good but but they don't even count compared to their great big epics etc ." Anyway, no luck in getting any recognition.

I absolutely believe it, I've had similar conversations but I find it unsurprising. It seems odd to us on this board but we're mega-fans who probably all listen to their work fairly often, think about them a lot and keep discussing them here even during long periods of band inactivity and of course more so around the final tour. But they released their final album a quarter of a century ago and their most famous and visible member stopped recording 10 years ago. To most people outside our bubble the name Genesis means little or nothing in music terms.

As we've said, there are younger generations of fans discovering and enjoying their work. But nowhere near enough to justify the notion "they'll remain rock legends for generations to come" which was suggested earlier.

Quote from thefarmer

I remember Genesis doing a televised thing similar in format to Live Aid , I think it was to do with Nelson Mandela at the time of the IT tour. They were introduced as "Phil Collins and Genesis" Also on the WCD tour I picked up clear disappointment that they didn't play ITAT , and certainly in conversation with friends people were really surprised , with comments such as " well you would have thought they would play a few of his hits"

Yes that happens/happened but I wouldn't read anything into it. It's entirely expected, understandable and in a way logical for those only peripherally interested in the band to think that way.

Quote from thefarmer

I used to be certain that you are right few years ago but more younger people are looking at past music from a generation ago than most of my generation ever did, and digging out the gold . One of the reasons I put this thread up is that I'm getting the impression younger people are beginning to look at Genesis again , so I'm posing the question.

As an aside , there was Radio 1 DJ on "I'm a celebrity " last year who knew nothing of The Beatles or The Eagles.

Oh I've no doubt there are young people delving into 60s/70s stuff we grew up on and liking it, no argument there. I was disputing that justified some hyperbole offered up earlier.

There'll always be people with no knowledge or vague awareness of, or little/zero interest in the likes of those bands despite their huge fame and popularity. It happens. That this was a Radio 1 dj is irrelevant, as counter-intuitive as that may sound.

Quote from choccy

Genesis suffered at times because people could not distinguish PC from Genesis and all they assumed was its another PC song.

People were sick off Phil by the time 1992 came around and Phil took the hit for the apparent Pop songs that Genesis were putting out and of course it wasn't on him in reality and on the plus side, PC success also brought other people to Genesis as well, so it was a give and take kinda thing with the general public.

I certainly feel Genesis have been more popular all round and appreciated more since 2007 through to present than perhaps 1992 -1998 period.

I used to be one of those listeners back in the day. Loved the Prog side of Genesis before they went commercial and used to find it hard to distinguish between PC and Genesis at the time . Most Prog Genesis fans hated this transformation and I believe some jumped ship and supported Marillion who were then just starting out with Fish as singer.

You will be glad to know that my latter years have excepted the newer side of the Genesis and have collected all their albums to date.

Quote from Backdrifter

The aforementioned Dire Straits are similar for me, in that I absolutely see the appeal, and there's the occasional one or two I don't mind but it's largely not for me. One of my favourite films is Local Hero and I thought Knopler's score was about as near-perfect as could be, and one of the best examples of the music dovetailing so well with the film. Straits were sort of the Coldplay of their day in that despite or because of their huge popularity and success it was often deemed deeply 'uncool' to like them and fans were dismissed as unadventurous middle-class likers of dull safe music suited only to comfy dinner parties.

With them, Coldplay and Genesis I'm reminded of a comment by a journalist in Sounds in reference to Rush: "Hugely successful, yet apparently liked by no-one."

Thanks. That sums it up. People bought Brothers In Arms to test their new CDs, etc. Seriously, I have seen that in print.

Back to Genesis; I always admired the fact that they never played solo songs as a band.

To add to the above, as recently as December I discovered I worked with closet Genesis fans who went to see them, and they were disappointed that there were no Phil Collins songs played.

Also on the topic of phil as the bad guy in Genesis. I firmly believe the guy is almost a genius musically, and as talented as Tony and Mike are, they are not geniuses really. Phil didn't make them a pop monstrosity, but through his ability he enabled Tony's (and to a lesser extent Mike's) ambitions to be a rock star. To some extent he was a translator for their language to the mainstream. None of us can know how music of today will be judged in 400 years time but I'd like to think that if any artist was labeled "misunderstood" it would be Phil. Popular hack? No. Godlike multivalent talent? Yes.

And to finish, I do much prefer the compositional beefiness that Banks/Rutherford added to Genesis than I do Phil solo. I think they are unbelievably good, as evidenced by CAS being in my top 3 Genesis albums and above any Phil solo album. It's just that IT could have been The Fugitive 2 without Phil. Yes, the tour would have been Tuesday night at the Odeon instead of 3 nights at Wembley Stadium!

Quote from thewatcher

I discovered I worked with closet Genesis fans

Hahahaha!

"Rumours persist of a covert ring of Genesis fans..."