First part of Domino.
Imagine the guitar/synth riff with arpeggiated 12 strings, the synthy lead line played with the Pro-soloist,
and then the "Can't you see what you are doing to me " part with big organ chord, punctuated with Mellotron brass sound...
I think the guitar part is more rhythmic and percussive compared to the arpeggiated parts of yore. The synth line perhaps might work.
Alien Afternoon (midway to the end) gives me those 70’s chills.
I don't think the ''fantasy'' atmosphere was solely restricted to the lyrics, instruments and the way there were used, played a big role to. The Mellotron was a casualty of the decade in the 70s but so were acoustic instruments. I'll probably stand corrected but, off the top of my head, 12 string guitars disappeared after W&W, acoustic guitars after Duke to resurface briefly on CAS and even the Piano was replaced by its electric version.
I don't think the ''fantasy'' atmosphere was solely restricted to the lyrics, instruments and the way there were used, played a big role to. The Mellotron was a casualty of the decade in the 70s but so were acoustic instruments. I'll probably stand corrected but, off the top of my head, 12 strings guitar disappeared after W&W, acoustic guitars after Duke to resurface briefly on CAS and even the Piano was replaced by its electric version.
Now that you mention it, there is a lack of acoustic instruments and the associated organic feel that goes with their use in the 80s output. Sign of the times I guess. The acoustic set in the CAS shows was a highlight, I think. I would have liked a little more of that along the way.
I think the guitar part is more rhythmic and percussive compared to the arpeggiated parts of yore. The synth line perhaps might work.
Yes, but that was my point. It would require a change in the playing style to fit the 70's sound : arpeggios that would follow the original harmony played by Mike on his guitar synth.
I feel there's a song here and a song there that might have the fantasy-esque elements going as far forward as the Mama album; Home By the Sea and Silver Rainbow, specifically. But if we're talking general albums, then IMO ...And Then There Were Three is really the one-which even then is only a few songs: The Lady Lies, Scenes from a Night's Dream, Deep in the Motherlode, and I suppose Ballad of Big could count as one, even though it's more a western theme.
Just listening to disc 2 of the BBC set and I think I can pinpoint Burning Rope as the song that ended the Genesis fantasy aspect this thread references. Phil's comments about the song since. His massive solo success almost immediately after. It sounds like a Fugitive song with Collins (and Rutherford)'s enormous talent pulling it up. I kind of like it and think Collins' judgement is a bit harsh but I think it is the "line in the sand" with a clear before and after in Genesis terms.
The DoaV that follows it on the BBC set... Holy God what a force they were!
Yes the Volcano/Endos medley from Knebworth really rocked.
Just listening to disc 2 of the BBC set and I think I can pinpoint Burning Rope as the song that ended the Genesis fantasy aspect this thread references. Phil's comments about the song since. His massive solo success almost immediately after. It sounds like a Fugitive song with Collins (and Rutherford)'s enormous talent pulling it up. I kind of like it and think Collins' judgement is a bit harsh but I think it is the "line in the sand" with a clear before and after in Genesis terms.
The DoaV that follows it on the BBC set... Holy God what a force they were!
I kind of get what you mean about Rope being the last 'fantasy' song, though I'm not convinced it is. Earlier comments here suggest (eg) HBTS and Domino as continuing the theme but, as it were, transferring the fantasy DNA into a new host, which I absolutely do see. I think Domino's a very good example actually, as it sets out a fantastical-sounding scenario, but within the trappings of the 80s trio sound and approach it feels very different from something like BR so perhaps doesn't come across so readily as 'fantasy'. Those two longer Banks tracks on ATTWT will certainly seem to many as possibly the last two fully prog-sounding tracks. Except for Heathaze, BR is for me the last one to feature Banks's ponderous faux-profound philosophising.
M&SJ is another possible example of continuation of the fantasy notion. It seems to me that "I invent a name" suggests everything that comes after is possibly a fantasy, or at least imagined.
Re the live renditions. In a way it's a shame Seconds Out happened when it did, although I completely understand the timing. Some of the subsequent live performances of its classics, such as DOAV, 81 Firth and 82 SR blow the SO ones clear out of the water. But at least we have those later ones available via the BBC discs and the various unofficial but good quality radio broadcast releases.
EDIT - by the way I meant to ask, what did PC say about BR?
Display MoreI kind of get what you mean about Rope being the last 'fantasy' song, though I'm not convinced it is. Earlier comments here suggest (eg) HBTS and Domino as continuing the theme but, as it were, transferring the fantasy DNA into a new host, which I absolutely do see. I think Domino's a very good example actually, as it sets out a fantastical-sounding scenario, but within the trappings of the 80s trio sound and approach it feels very different from something like BR so perhaps doesn't come across so readily as 'fantasy'. Those two longer Banks tracks on ATTWT will certainly seem to many as possibly the last two fully prog-sounding tracks. Except for Heathaze, BR is for me the last one to feature Banks's ponderous faux-profound philosophising.
M&SJ is another possible example of continuation of the fantasy notion. It seems to me that "I invent a name" suggests everything that comes after is possibly a fantasy, or at least imagined.
Re the live renditions. In a way it's a shame Seconds Out happened when it did, although I completely understand the timing. Some of the live performances of its classics, such as DOAV, 81 Firth and 82 SR blow the SO ones clear out of the water. But at least we have those later ones available via the BBC discs and the various unofficial but good quality radio broadcast releases.
EDIT - by the way I meant to ask, what did PC say about BR?
He said something along the lines of having to sing a song like that is what finally made him decide to leave Genesis. Also made disparaging remark about how the song doesn’t belong in this century.
He said something along the lines of having to sing a song like that is what finally made him decide to leave Genesis.
Well he took about 15 years to "finally" come to that decision then.
QuoteAlso made disparaging remark about how the song doesn’t belong in this century.
Hahaha! Blimey.
Well he took about 15 years to "finally" come to that decision then.
Hahaha! Blimey.
I do sort of get his "twentieth century" comment when considered in context of other comments he made about maintaining relevance in light of changing trends in the late 70s/early 80s. Perhaps he worded it oddly.
Surely Phil should have known that working with Tony meant sometimes having to sing songs like BR!
"Collins needed to leave Genesis if he was going to stay true to his musical compass."
Well, I'll just say this: While BR is not a major favorite of mine, I have nothing serious against it either. But I have never felt the need to check out anything Phil did after leaving Genesis, aside from his songs for TARZAN. So I'm personally not all that concerned about his "musical compass," and I suspect a lot of other Genesis fans aren't either. (As someone around here once said about DANCE INTO THE LIGHT: "Phil left Genesis to make this?")
Well I never knew that. I knew of his many references to “sheets of double glazing” and “undinal songs” but not this one. However he did sound bored when singing it, particularly live, and he does have a point. I mean, “snowflake drifting on the breath of a breeze” belongs more to a Keats poetry book than a rock album.
Well I never knew that. I knew of his many references to “sheets of double glazing” and “undinal songs” but not this one. However he did sound bored when singing it, particularly live, and he does have a point. I mean, “snowflake drifting on the breath of a breeze” belongs more to a Keats poetry book than a rock album.
I would agree. Having said that, it is by far my favorite song on that album.
Phil and Tony have very, very different writing styles. Phil’s is much more popular. I like Tony’s much better.
He said something along the lines of having to sing a song like that is what finally made him decide to leave Genesis. Also made disparaging remark about how the song doesn’t belong in this century.
I don't personally remember Phil saying the ''doesn't belong in this century'' bit, I know he labeled it as a period song, and he might have had a point. Look, I don't want to be too hard on Phil, surely at times Tony has penned quite bookish lyrics, a mouthful too but when I think of Phil's lyrics, apart from a few exceptions, I feel he should be more cautious with the criticism.
I would agree. Having said that, it is by far my favorite song on that album.
Phil and Tony have very, very different writing styles. Phil’s is much more popular. I like Tony’s much better.
Same here. As per my original post on this thread, the band was really magical to me when Steve was in it, which also happened to be when Tony spread his wings more. Phil had a point though, and I think Phil’s ability to arrange and tighten songs, to avoid the cringey bits, is not fully appreciated. That’s maybe for another thread though.
But Tony wasn’t always the best lyricist. Great with mood, scale and complexity but his lyrics weren’t always the greatest. Could be original though, I mean there can’t be many songs featuring a bread bin but he managed to tick that box as well!
Yes, this was what I was thinking of. Something about the song as I was listening to it this weekend, in light of those comments, made me see it as the straw that broke the camel's back. It's a bit arbitrary of course, it's just one random fan's take. I certainly see the elements that carried forward to tracks in the 80s (and beyond - Alien Afternoon is pretty fantastical!), and they were a band that progressed along a continuum rather than abruptly.
