Your favorite tracks on ... "Genesis"

    One thing that strikes me about the sessions for the 1983 album is that (as far as I know) there was no leftover material, i.e. songs that didn’t make it on the album. Close as I can figure out this may have been the only album with no such leftover material. Compare that to the album directly before (Abacab: Naminanu, Submarine, You Might Recall, Paperlate, Me and Virgil) and the album directly after (IT: Feeding the Fire, Do the Neurotic).

    Quote from MoonlitKnight

    One thing that strikes me about the sessions for the 1983 album is that (as far as I know) there was no leftover material, i.e. songs that didn’t make it on the album. Close as I can figure out this may have been the only album with no such leftover material. Compare that to the album directly before (Abacab: Naminanu, Submarine, You Might Recall, Paperlate, Me and Virgil) and the album directly after (IT: Feeding the Fire, Do the Neurotic).

    True but it makes sense, if you think about it. Between 1980 and 83 they released Duke, Abacab and Shapes, toured extensively, at a much larger scale than before and released 3SL In 82. Phil released FV in 1980, HIMBG in 82 and toured, Mike released Smallcreep's Day in 1980 and AVS in 82 and Tony the Fugitive in 83. They were pushing extremely hard and they were probably a bit ''dry''.

    All true. I wonder if the band’s approach to songwriting by 1983 (just come into the studio and start jamming) had as much to do with each member running somewhat dry after writing for their own solo albums as it did with some overarching sense that they’d produce better music by coming in and jamming. Also drum machines made it easier to simply show up, set up a rhythm pattern, and go from there.

    Quote from MoonlitKnight

    All true. I wonder if the band’s approach to songwriting by 1983 (just come into the studio and start jamming) had as much to do with each member running somewhat dry after writing for their own solo albums

    Well, yes, I think Tony said that much. I also believe the success of FV might have contributed to the shift in the dynamics within the group and also, they smartly realized they needed to capitalize on the fact that Phil was suddenly a superstar. Crazy schedule anyway.

    Quote from thewatcher

    It's Gonna Get Better (great tune btw, love the 'rainy city' vibe), Congo, Do the Neurotic...

    I swithered over IGGB because the fade-in element is barely there. It sounds too little like a proper fade-in. But fair enough including it as it is technically one I suppose. I agree it's a great song with a very distinctive feel and atmosphere. I like your rainy city description.


    Good point re DTN, I only thought about album tracks.


    The fade-out of Congo is possibly the worst they ever did.

    Abandon all reason

    This was the first album I bought as a proper Genesis nut. I had seen them on the Abacab tour but I was really looking forward to this album, especially after hearing Mama.


    I tried to convince myself it was great. The MAMA show was great of course.


    But for me, other than FGTR, this is comfortably their worst album. And I mean by a long way.


    IMO it has 3 good tracks (Mama, HBTS, 2HBTS) and thats it.


    Listening to side 2 these days makes me think they didn't have a lot of ideas going round, and the ones they did, they didn't work on sufficiently. It feels about 60% completed to me.


    I never ever listen to it, other than the obvious ones. I appreciate it was a lot of people's gateway album, but I would take CAS over this one any day.


    It's one of the reasons I was so relieved when IT came out, as it felt like a proper album again.


    My 2 cents.

    Quote from Mozo

    But for me, other than FGTR, this is comfortably their worst album. And I mean by a long way.


    IMO it has 3 good tracks (Mama, HBTS, 2HBTS) and thats it.


    Listening to side 2 these days makes me think they didn't have a lot of ideas going round

    I see your point, they might have been dried up and we already discussed the possible reasons for that. Personally I feel that way about WCD which has imo 3-4 good songs and nothing more but it is a much longer album. I guess the difference for me is that on Shapes there is at least a classic and there is some energy to it. WCD sounds like they were on autopilot.

    • Official Post
    Quote from Fabrizio

    I see your point, they might have been dried up and we already discussed the possible reasons for that. Personally I feel that way about WCD which has imo 3-4 good songs and nothing more but it is a much longer album. I guess the difference for me is that on Shapes there is at least a classic and there is some energy to it. WCD sounds like they were on autopilot.

    In a sense I agree with you. WCD suffered from “cd bloat”, in that this was the early years of the digital age and they probably thought, hey let’s put every song on the album, we got the space for it. In my opinion, they should have just cut out three or four of those middle of the cd songs, and just added On the Shoreline. Cut a 70 something minute album down to 55-60 mins, would have made it stronger. Overall I don’t dislike it as much as some do, but it would still be in the bottom half of overall ranked Genesis albums, IMO. Off track, as this is a thread about Shapes, my apologies.

    Quote from Fabrizio

    I see your point, they might have been dried up and we already discussed the possible reasons for that. Personally I feel that way about WCD which has imo 3-4 good songs and nothing more but it is a much longer album. I guess the difference for me is that on Shapes there is at least a classic and there is some energy to it. WCD sounds like they were on autopilot.


    That's interesting, because that's exactly how I feel about Genesis! But it is what it is.


    I appreciate loads of people love this album. And I'm glad, it just reminds me that everyone's opinion, including my own, is just that.

    Quote from Liquid Len

    In a sense I agree with you. WCD suffered from “cd bloat”, in that this was the early years of the digital age and they probably thought, hey let’s put every song on the album, we got the space for it. In my opinion, they should have just cut out three or four of those middle of the cd songs, and just added On the Shoreline. Cut a 70 something minute album down to 55-60 mins, would have made it stronger. Overall I don’t dislike it as much as some do, but it would still be in the bottom half of overall ranked Genesis albums, IMO. Off track, as this is a thread about Shapes, my apologies.

    A shorter album would have made everything more even and a couple of editorial choices were quite questionable. Also, imo Phil wrote far too many lyrics and amongst his manifold skills, this is the one I really rate the least, although NSOM and Spike are good. It would have still been an end of the road album, that's what it was after all but it would have been a bit more palatable, to me at least. So, Shapes...

    It's a top heavy album, they lead with three of their greatest songs and the rest ranges from pleasant to the absolute worst song they've ever recorded.


    "Mama" is up there with "Oh! Darling," "Since I've Been Loving You," and Dio's "Stargazer" as one of the single greatest rock vocal performances of all time, and the whole song is a masterpiece. Probably my single favorite Genesis song just based on the vocals, although the musicianship and general atmosphere are perfect as well.


    "That's All" is pop, but it's intelligent and dark with a charming McCartney-esque feel and melodic sensibility. Again, Phil was at his peak vocally and he delivers big time here.

    "Home by the Sea" is a masterpiece in musical storytelling. It's better than most visual horror movies; the way they build the world of this song through their playing and production is exquisite.


    Then it all just kind of goes nowhere.


    I really hope the band is embarrassed by "Illegal Alien." What were they thinking with this one? Phil's racist-tastic accent, the cringe-y lyrics, that annnoying hook, everything about it is revolting. I absolutely hate this song.


    The rest is ok; "It's Gonna Get Better" is actually quite nice and lovely, and Phil's vocal are again out of this world on "Just a Job to Do." But "Taking It All Too Hard" and "Silver Rainbow"...eh. Had to listen to them again just before writing this because they didn't stuck with me at all.


    Comfortably near the bottom of their catalog, but not bad by any means.

    • Official Post

    I think Illegal Alien is supposed to be “tongue in cheek”. It’s probably even less PC today than it was in 1983, but it still sounds good.

    Quote from Liquid Len

    I think Illegal Alien is supposed to be “tongue in cheek”. It’s probably even less PC today than it was in 1983, but it still sounds good.

    Hmm. I like the tune, but I don't think the lyrics are ok. I thought initially it might have been more PC at the time and it just aged badly, but I was 2 when it came out, and a more seasoned fan here recently pointed out that it wasn't really ok even back then.


    I'd compare it to how they satirized hypocritical tele-evangelists in Jesus He Knows Me perfectly. That was cool. Illegal Alien, much as I enjoy the tune, is not. It is tongue in cheek, but lay off the illegal aliens Phil.

    • Official Post
    Quote from thewatcher

    Hmm. I like the tune, but I don't think the lyrics are ok. I thought initially it might have been more PC at the time and it just aged badly, but I was 2 when it came out, and a more seasoned fan here recently pointed out that it wasn't really ok even back then.


    I'd compare it to how they satirized hypocritical tele-evangelists in Jesus He Knows Me perfectly. That was cool. Illegal Alien, much as I enjoy the tune, is not. It is tongue in cheek, but lay off the illegal aliens Phil.

    yeah, the lyrics have aged horribly. No way they could sing this on the domino tour.