Re-arrange Genesis albums

    Quote from chema

    invisible touch -the song- is disliked by some genesis fans. i'm not one of them, for sure. but i think the perception of this song would be different if it:

    - had been placed somewhere else on the album, not as the opening track.

    - hadn't been chosen as the first single.

    - the album hadn't been called after invisible touch.

    I can't speak for others but my dislike for that song is really not determined by where it was placed on the album or when it was released as a single. You are perhaps right in saying that something like LOC would have probably been a less bitter pill to swallow but I would still find IT abysmal. I found it bad at that time, I find it even worse today.

    Calling All Stations :


    1 Calling All Stations Banks, Rutherford 00:05:43
    2 Congo Banks, Rutherford 00:04:51
    3 There Must Be Some Other Way Banks, Rutherford, Wilson 00:07:54
    4 Alien Afternoon Banks, Rutherford 00:07:51
    5 Sign Your Life Away Banks, Rutherford 00:04:45
    6 Not About Us Banks, Rutherford, Wilson 00:04:38
    7 The Dividing Line Banks, Rutherford 00:07:45
    8 Uncertain Weather Banks, Rutherford 00:05:29
    9 Run Out of Time Banks, Rutherford 00:06:31
    10 One Man's Fool Banks, Rutherford 00:08:58
    11 Anything Now Banks, Rutherford 00:07:00






    		TOTAL 01:11:25



    I think the album would have been better that way... Less uniformity, I think. Recently, I came across "Sign Your Life Away", I think this is one of their best songs from that period, very punchy. I like "Anything Now", especially the surprising piano solo. And "Run Out Of Time" is a hidden treasure.


    Setlist :


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    Feeding the Fire (Changed album title):

    Side One:

    Tonight, Tonight, Tonight

    Land of Confusion

    Throwing It All Away

    The Brazilian


    Side Two:

    Domino I & II

    In Too Deep

    Feeding the Fire

    Do the Neurotic

    Calling All Stations, Highlights Version:


    Calling All Stations

    Congo

    Shipwrecked

    Alien Afternoon

    The Dividing Line

    Small Talk

    There must be some other way


    Or:


    Calling All Stations

    Congo

    Shipwrecked

    Alien Afternoon

    Not About Us

    The Dividing Line

    Small Talk

    One Man's Fool


    :S


    I think with this album, even "Domino" would have been a strong Album Name

    Quote from Fabrizio

    I can't speak for others but my dislike for that song is really not determined by where it was placed on the album or when it was released as a single. You are perhaps right in saying that something like LOC would have probably been a less bitter pill to swallow but I would still find IT abysmal. I found it bad at that time, I find it even worse today.

    IT for me is the 2nd worst song on the album after Anything She Does.


    But it is a great Song for radio back then and it's got the energy that made it popular.

    Abacab


    Abacab

    No Reply At All

    Man On The Corner

    Me and Sarah Jane

    You Might Recall


    Like It Or Not

    Keep it Dark

    Naminanu/Dodo/Lurker/Submarine


    Who Dunnit, Paperlate and Me and Virgil all b-sides.

    We Can't Dance


    No Son Of Mine

    Driving The Last Spike

    Jesus He Knows Me

    Never a Time

    Dreaming While you Sleep

    Tell Me Why

    Living Forever

    On the Shoreline

    Fading Lights


    I Can't Dance, Hold On My Heart, Way Of The World and Since I Lost You all b-sides.

    We Can't Dance, probably too long to be played on a single vinyl, but it works on a 60-minute-tape (because I try to be coherent with what was able at the time for release...).


    SIDE 1
    1 No Son Of Mine Banks, Collins, Rutherford 06:45
    2 Driving The Last Spike Banks, Collins, Rutherford 10:09
    3 Jesus He Knows Me Banks, Collins, Rutherford 04:17
    4 Dreaming While You Sleep Banks, Collins, Rutherford 07:17
    TOTAL SIDE 1
    		 28:28


    SIDE 2
    1 On The Shoreline Banks, Collins, Rutherford 04:50
    2 Hold On My Heart Banks, Collins, Rutherford 04:39
    3 I Can’t Dance Banks, Collins, Rutherford 04:02
    4 Living Forever Banks, Collins, Rutherford 05:42
    5 Fading Lights Banks, Collins, Rutherford 10:28
    TOTAL SIDE 2
    		 29:41
    TOTAL TIME
    		 58:09


    I agree, we loose 3 (edit : actually, 4) songs, but I always thought the album was a bit too long... I think it works a lot better that way, especially the last three songs.


    B sides :

    Never A Time > No Son of Mine

    Way Of The World > Jesus He Knows Me

    Since I Lost You > I Can't Dance

    Hearts on Fire > Hold On My Heart

    Tell Me Why > On The Shoreline


    Setlist :


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    :)

    Regarding We Can't Dance:


    1. No Son of Mine (needless to say more).


    2. The album's cover (needless to say more).


    3. Since I Lost You was composed by Phil Collins for Eric Clapton after the death of the latter's son Conor. What is more, some lines of the lyrics were taken from the conversation between Collins and Clapton after the tragedy.


    4. Fading Lights is a farewell song hinting a remorse for a deceased parent (reinforced by the album's cover)or a goodbye from a dying parent. This was/is a sensitive subject for Phil, as he thought/thinks he did not spend enough time with his Father. The song also calls for making the most of one's time, with an emphasis on being with one's own loved ones.


    5. As previously said, We Can't Dance's working title was Father and Son.


    6. The "My Heart" of Hold On My Heart could mean one's own Child/Offspring instead of one's own spouse/lover/sentimental partner. The song deals with the recipient of love having to be protected. And a child needs to be protected more than an adult.


    7. Driving the Last Spike mentions the navvies' children who were about to stop seeing their fathers for a long time, if not forever.


    These are not all the connections, but I think they are the most clear ones.

    Regarding "Shapes":


    1. Mama (needless to say more).


    2. Apart from Shapes, Genesis' 1983 album is also informally known as Mama or The Mama Album.


    3. The soothing of It's Gonna Get Better seems to me like a return to the comfort and/or protection of a Mother. Besides there are mentions of a Sister and a Brother.


    There are more connections, but I think they are quite brains-racking.

    All very tenuous. Those aren't the themes of those albums by a long stretch but ultimately anything is open to personal interpretation. For example I like how you've interpreted the theme of this thread and rearranged the meaning of two albums. Well done!

    Abandon all reason

    Like 1
    Quote from IWishItWouldRainDown

    Regarding We Can't Dance:



    4. Fading Lights is a farewell song hinting a remorse for a deceased parent (reinforced by the album's cover)or a goodbye from a dying parent. This was/is a sensitive subject for Phil, as he thought/thinks he did not spend enough time with his Father. The song also calls for making the most of one's time, with an emphasis on being with one's own loved ones.


    Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Tony write the lyrics to Fading Lights?


    If it's about a deceased parent (and I'm not sure it is), that would make it's subject matter very similar to Mike + the Mechanic's "The Living Years" (which Mike didn't write the lyrics for).


    For me, all your suppositions about both We Can't Dance and the self titled album are really a stretch.

    Quote from Henry Hamilton-Smythe

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Tony write the lyrics to Fading Lights?


    If it's about a deceased parent (and I'm not sure it is), that would make it's subject matter very similar to Mike + the Mechanic's "The Living Years" (which Mike didn't write the lyrics for).


    For me, all your suppositions about both We Can't Dance and the self titled album are really a stretch.

    Yes Fading Lights is a TB one. It comes across more as a person near the end of their own life, looking back fondly but accepting the inevitability of their mortality.


    Mama is of course, as is generally known, about a young man's obsession with an older woman who is a prostitute. I suppose you could, as Frasier says, analyse the crap out of it and suggest the obsession comes from some Oedipal place.


    No Son is obviously not about fatherhood but rather someone coming to terms with their father's abuse of him.


    All in all, yes the suggested links to supposed fatherhood/motherhood themes are extremely tenuous. That said, people refer to bad dancing as "dad dancing" so there's another possible one for I Can't Dance...

    Abandon all reason

    Like 1

    I can see why you might think the cover of WCD depicts a father & son, but as this has never occurred to me until this minute, I would agree with others who say the links are tenuous. In fact the 'dad dancing' thing was the first and only think I thought of when I read the post.

    I would probably not change anything about the tracklist for the PG era albums. Other ones like ATOTT and Wind & Wuthering I'd feel like I'm changing just for the sake of it, but may not be necessary. The three I'd say could benefit from a reorder would be Abacab, Genesis, and WCD.


    In this, I also took the liberty of inserting some B-sides that were left out but would've created better pacing for the album, in favor of IMO weaker songs.


    Abacab:


    1. Abacab

    2. No Reply at All

    3. Keep it Dark

    4. Dodo/Lurker


    5. Paperlate

    6. Me and Sarah Jane

    7. Man on the Corner

    8. You Might Recall

    9. Like it Or Not


    I feel this tracklist creates a little better balance across the album, based on the style of the songs. If there were space, I'd add Naminanu, 1. cos I love it, and 2. cos it would be nice to have an instrumental on there.


    Genesis:


    1. Mama

    2. Illegal Alien

    3. Taking it all Too Hard

    4. Silver Rainbow

    5. Just a Job to Do


    6. That's All

    7. Home by the Sea

    8. 2nd Home by the Sea

    9. It's Gonna Get Better (full version)


    IMO this tracklist spreads out the 'good ones' a little wider across the album, instead of having them all at the beginning, causing side 2 to be otherwise forgotten.


    We Can't Dance:


    1. On the Shoreline

    2. Jesus He Knows Me

    3. Dreaming While you Sleep


    4. I Can't Dance

    5. Way of the World

    6. Living Forever


    7. No Son of Mine

    8. Never a Time

    9. Driving the Last Spike


    10. Hold On My Heart

    11. Tell Me Why

    12. Fading Lights


    This one was a bit tougher, but with this tracklist IMO it solves the same issue the Genesis album had; all the popular songs on the first half, leaving the second half unnoticed. This tracklist spreads out the "favorites" more across the album, with each side starting strong. I also replaced Since I Lost You with On the Shoreline, which IMO serves as a great album opener-maybe not as iconic an opening as No Son of Mine, but I like it better personally.


    Calling All Stations:


    1. Calling All Stations

    2. Anything Now

    3. Small Talk


    4. Congo

    5. There Must Be Some Other Way

    6. The Dividing Line


    7. Not About Us

    8. Uncertain Weather

    9. Alien Afternoon


    10. Shipwrecked

    11. Sign Your Life Away

    12. One Man's Fool


    Again, this one wasn't easy but it again was all about spreading out the good ones...with a couple preferred B-sides added in.

    And


    4. Shapes' corresponding was called The Mama Tour. But I think this was for Mama being Genesis' most successful single in England.


    5. At first, Tony Smith was a bit hesitant towards Mama as he thought it was about abortion.


    6. I think both Mama and It's Gonna Get Better deal with different parts of the same story with the same character as both songs warn about the dangers of "the city".