20, 21, 22 September | Genesis live in BIRMINGHAM | reports **SPOILERS**

    I use lyrics. Some of us have really bad memories for words when performing. We could sing it in the shower with no issues, 100% correctly and then you put us on stage and the brain just... clams up, lol.

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    'When you wake in the morning

    Wake and find you're covered in cellophane

    Well, there's a hole in there somewhere'

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    Quote from choccy

    Still waiting for someone to upload Tonight Tonight Tonight video :(

    You can watch the whole show here, my buddy Mike went to the UK to see the tour opener! :)


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    Quote from Methos

    It is what it is. If it bothers someone so much, and I get that it's difficult at times, I would just not go.


    As far as getting lyrics wrong - LOL! I get Beatle song lyrics wrong when I play them live and I've known these songs for 50 years! The brain doesn't work at 50, let alone at 70 as it does when you are 20.


    When I was younger, I saw singers using lyrics, including Gabriel in his shows in 02 and was like WTF! Then when I started to perform, I got a quick awakening.

    You're right Methos. But like many older fans, it's a last chance at seeing band that we've followed through our teens, '20s, '30s, '40s, '50s .... you get the point. I was in a Genesis tribute band for many years so I definitely can empathize with flubs (I was thrilled if I had 2 or less per 2.5 hour show). Unfortunately, YouTube and social media tend to show every wart whereas in the moment, those things are more forgivable.

    Quote from BassAnd12Man

    You're right Methos. But like many older fans, it's a last chance at seeing band that we've followed through our teens, '20s, '30s, '40s, '50s .... you get the point. I was in a Genesis tribute band for many years so I definitely can empathize with flubs (I was thrilled if I had 2 or less per 2.5 hour show). Unfortunately, YouTube and social media tend to show every wart whereas in the moment, those things are more forgivable.

    I completely get that.


    I'm just glad I got the chance to see them at all ^^

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    'When you wake in the morning

    Wake and find you're covered in cellophane

    Well, there's a hole in there somewhere'

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    Quote from Sentinel

    I’ve only seen the last few tours and they seem to swap between ‘dark and moody’ intros, like Mama, and ‘bright and confident’ starters like Abacab or the Duke suite. Like you, I think I prefer a moody start. Going back, historically they’d start with numbers like Watcher or Squonk, so there doesn’t seem to be a pattern.


    I wonder what thinking goes on when they’re planning the order?

    FWIW, From 77 - 1998 (excluding festival gigs and the 3SL tour), they opened shows with a song from the previous album (respectively Squonk, 11th Earl, Motherlode, Behind the Lines, Dodo/Lurker, Mama, Land, No Son)

    Quote from BassAnd12Man

    You're right Methos. But like many older fans, it's a last chance at seeing band that we've followed through our teens, '20s, '30s, '40s, '50s .... you get the point. I was in a Genesis tribute band for many years so I definitely can empathize with flubs (I was thrilled if I had 2 or less per 2.5 hour show). Unfortunately, YouTube and social media tend to show every wart whereas in the moment, those things are more forgivable.

    I saw Paul McCarntey use an Ipad a few years ago for his Hey Jude lyrics. In his defense, he only used it to start the verse.

    Quote from TheGerkuman

    I think certain songs sound better in the lower key. Heck, I actually preferred Ripples at the 2007 Key. (Sacrilige I know)

    I've mentioned before that key changes really mess with my head. I have perfect pitch and different keys have very different moods and qualities for me. So a key change can really change how a song feels to me, even if everything else (the notes, arrangements, tempos) remain the same. Sometimes I don't mind this change because it refreshes the song in a way that works for me. Sometimes it doesn't work for me.


    Although I prefer Ripples in the key of E, I didn't have a problem with the key change to D. It made it "feel" kind of gentle and pastoral, which still worked for the song. Plus Phil could actually sing it better in that key, so that was helpful.


    In terms of the key changes I have heard from this tour, some I don't mind. Mama is kind of brooding and dark in C minor, in a different way than it was in E minor, which was more eerie and scary. Fading Lights sounds like it is in E (a full fourth down from the original key and a third down from the previous live key). It is less ethereal in this key for me, but kind of woodsy, folksy, which still works for me.

    The whole thing about the key changes is, have they dropped further than the 2007 tour in order to preserve Phil's voice over multiple nights (I was shocked when the extra dates got announced) or can he just not hit those notes *at all*?


    Some tracks it bothered me quite a bit and others seemed to be less affected: No Son Of Mine worked well for example.

    There was at least one song with high notes that was performed at the original key. So yeah, it looks like he could hit those notes, if he was doing a one-off.

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    'When you wake in the morning

    Wake and find you're covered in cellophane

    Well, there's a hole in there somewhere'

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    Quote from TheGerkuman

    There was at least one song with high notes that was performed at the original key. So yeah, it looks like he could hit those notes, if he was doing a one-off.

    I'm not sure he can reliably hit notes past F above middle C. There were a few points where he took brief passes at F# and even G, but they were very brief. He even has trouble holding an E - totally misses it in "lies" from Moonlit Knight and drops out very quickly in the "oh-oh" part of Mama (the back-up singers fill in for him).

    I was convinced at the time that No Son of Mine wasn't pitched down. I could be wrong though. Maybe it's just that it's not as low as 2007.

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    'When you wake in the morning

    Wake and find you're covered in cellophane

    Well, there's a hole in there somewhere'

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    In terms of the key changes, here is a run-down according to my ear:


    Duke's suite - original key

    Turn It On Again - G (two whole notes lower)
    Mama - C minor (two whole notes lower)

    Land of Confusion - B minor (two whole notes)

    Home By the Sea - C minor (two whole notes)

    Second Home By the Sea - E minor (original key) - he sings the last lines differently so he avoids the higher notes

    Fading Lights - E (3.5 whole notes lower than the previous live key)

    Cinema Show - original key

    Afterglow - E (1.5 whole notes)

    That's All - C# minor (1.5 whole notes down)
    The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway - C (two whole notes)

    Follow You, Follow Me - F (one whole note)

    Duchess - G (two whole notes)

    No Son of Mine - D minor (one whole note)
    Firth of Fifth - original key(s)

    I Know What I Like - F (two whole notes)

    Domino - Bb (two whole notes)

    Throwing It All Away - A (two whole notes)

    Tonight, Tonight, Tonight - E (1.5 whole notes)

    Invisible Touch - C (3.5 whole notes)

    I Can't Dance - G (1.5 whole notes)

    Dancing With the Moonlit Knight - Am (two whole notes)

    Carpet Crawlers - C (one whole note)

    Those are MAJOR transpositions. As you said, some songs might be ok in different keys but many just fall flat (pardon the pun). Thanks for your list.

    Quote from simoncarbon

    The whole thing about the key changes is, have they dropped further than the 2007 tour in order to preserve Phil's voice over multiple nights (I was shocked when the extra dates got announced) or can he just not hit those notes *at all*?


    Some tracks it bothered me quite a bit and others seemed to be less affected: No Son Of Mine worked well for example.

    If you look at my list above, you will see that some songs from the 2007 tour were lowered again. For example, Mama was in D minor on the 2007 tour and was lowered to C minor on this tour. TIOA was in A on the 2007 tour and is now in G. Invisible Touch was in D on the 2007 tour (already down 1.5 whole notes) and is now in C.


    Let's be clear, I'm not against lowering keys if it allows Phil to sing the songs better. This is pretty normal practice for many singers as their voices lower with age. Roger Daltrey is one of the few in the same age bracket that still sings most songs in the original keys.

    Quote from Dr. John

    Let's be clear, I'm not against lowering keys if it allows Phil to sing the songs better. This is pretty normal practice for many singers as their voices lower with age. Roger Daltrey is one of the few in the same age bracket that still sings most songs in the original keys.

    Neil Diamond sang in the original key all the way to the end. Paul Stanley of KISS tries.


    Of note - one thing I can't hear a lot on Phil's voice is effects. The vocal effects that are used today by artists are sick - above anything we could have ever imagined. A lot more than classic reverb, echo, etc.

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    Home By the Sea - C minor (two whole notes)

    Second Home By the Sea - E minor (original key) - he sings the last lines differently so he avoids the higher notes

    I have perfect pitch too, and the transition between the two feels... curious, to say the least (like "uh... ok"). It's almost like the two parts are unrelated. C minor is much more moody, E minor is a lot brighter.

    Funny how we feel keys... I feel Duchess in C major (it works great in this version), but it is because I take the chorus as a reference. Tonight is in B minor (very low for me), because I take the verse as a reference.