TotW 04/17/2023 - 04/23/2023: GENESIS - Eleventh Earl Of Mar

    • Official Post

    Your rating for "Eleventh Earl Of Mar" by GENESIS 27

    1. 15 points - outstanding (11) 41%
    2. 14 points - very good (8) 30%
    3. 13 points - very good - (4) 15%
    4. 12 points - good + (2) 7%
    5. 11 points - good (1) 4%
    6. 10 points - good - (1) 4%
    7. 09 points - satisfactory + (0) 0%
    8. 08 points - satisfactory (0) 0%
    9. 07 points - satisfactory - (0) 0%
    10. 06 points - sufficient + (0) 0%
    11. 05 points - sufficient (0) 0%
    12. 04 points - sufficient - (0) 0%
    13. 03 points - poor + (0) 0%
    14. 02 points - poor (0) 0%
    15. 01 points - poor - (0) 0%
    16. 00 points - abysmal (0) 0%

    We invite you to share interesting facts and tidbits about this track. Let's look at the track in the context of the band's / the artist's history, at the music, the songwriting and all other aspects that are relevant for this track. Please do stick to the discussion of the track above. Comparisons to other tracks are okay, but remember that the other track you may be keen to talk about has or will have its own Track Of The Week thread. If you spot a mistake or if you can close a gap in the fact sheet above please feel free to contact martinus or Christian about it; we will gladly add and improve!


    GENESIS - Eleventh Earl Of Mar
    Year: 1976
    Album: Wind & Wuthering
    Working title: ?
    Credits: Banks/Hackett/Rutherford
    Lyrics: Yes
    Length: 7:44
    Musicians: Tony Banks, Phil Collins, Steve Hackett, Mike Rutherford
    Played live: 1977, 1978, 1979
    Cover versions: ?

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    Notes: In our review, Robert Krauskopf finds a crisper, less playful composition than on previous albums in Eleventh Earl Of Mar. Told of the Scottish Jacobite Revolution of 1715, the story is creating a fantastic theatre for the ears. So - in a nutshell - the findings from the review of Wind & Wuthering. But, boy! that wasn't all - now you're really starting with praise, criticism and comments.

    cheers

    Christian


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  • Full marks from me. One of my favourites. One of their best openers to one of their best albums. I think it strikes the perfect balance between the longer and shorter songs in that it has sophisticated patterns within a straightforward overall structure. I love the opening, revisited at the close, punchy verses which tell a story and a break in the middle beautifully sung by Phil. I couldn’t single out a best player on this one, they are all playing brilliantly as individuals and as a band, including some superb bass from Mike. The atmosphere created sets up the album perfectly.

  • Agree with the first comment, this track is outstanding for me. They build great tension and work brilliant dynamics into it. I like that there's aggression appearing in Phil's voice, which had been very soft to that point. Band is on absolutely top form. They integrate everyone well, despite things not being ok behind the scenes (or who knows, maybe because of it).


    The album as a whole most definitely didn't live up to this opener for me. I used to like the album more than I do now, but even then this was the best track. 15.

  • Instant 15. No brainer.


    One of their greatest ever tracks, and second greatest opening track after Watcher.


    I never saw them play it in full but they played a section of it as the intro to the old medley on the Mama tour, and I can still remember the crowd reaction.


    It's got everything, it would be quicker to list its faults, which are...well I don't know, I haven't found any yet. It's a shame it didn't get played for all that long


    I suppose if I had to choose a favourite aspect I would say the intro. Exciting, anticipatory, glorious, powerful. Not to mention the beautiful quiet section in the middle.


    Sets up the album beautifully too.


    In short, I'm a fan.

  • 15 out of 15. In my opinion it may be the best example in the Genesis catalog of their ability in one song to alternate between dreamy sounding sequences and sections played with up-tempo joy. For what it's worth I LOVE the symphonic ending they used on the ATTWT Tour.

  • Well, I'm certainly a fan! A borderline 13/14 for me, although I do think there are some slight weaknesses to it, mainly in sound. I think compared to Dance on a Volcano it doesn't have that same dynamic power. To me the production is a little trebly and washed-out. Not disastrously so, only in comparison to the sound of ATOTT which is perfection IMO. Also I think the lyrics are a little indistinct and Phil hasn't quite got the same power and presence he brought to Volcano. My final criticism would be the story/lyrics which I don't find particularly engaging - they're fine, but not up there with e.g. Salmacis or even One for the Vine.


    That aside, it's a wonderful track - one of the most atmospheric and dreamiest openings to an album I know of. The melodies are to die for.

  • I'm not much of a fan, but equally I'm not keen on this album overall. From the general timbre of this board I think I'll be pretty isolated on this!

    To me the production is a little trebly and washed-out.


    My final criticism would be the story/lyrics which I don't find particularly engaging

    I agree with these caveats, though of course I acknowledge they are part of an overall positive opinion. This was a phase in which lyrically I didn't like much of what they were doing.


    One thing though: with both this and Vine, neither of which I much like on the album, the live versions are very listenable. They'd bring these songs to life on stage in a way that the dynamism of their performance overrode the aspects I didn't like. Mar on the 78 Chicago radio broadcast is very good and I love the choir chords in the dramatic re-entry to the main theme.


    EDIT - forgot to add, I do like the central section which I gather was a song fragment Hackett had available and slotted neatly in.


    Ultimately though, apart from an occasional listen to that live version this isn't one I ever play but that's also true of W&W (except BOTR and Afterglow).

    I never saw them play it in full but they played a section of it as the intro to the old medley on the Mama tour, and I can still remember the crowd reaction.

    What did you think of that medley? It had 2 or 3 versions and what I've heard sounded quite awkward to me. For a band usually able to make songs and segments flow together so well it seemed the most like a shotgun marriage. While not a Mar fan I thought it was quite ill-served.

    Abandon all reason

    Edited once, last by Backdrifter ().

  • What kind of medley was that? I must have completely missed out on that, I wasn't even aware they ever performed any bit out of 11th Earl later on.


    Regarding Eleventh Earl, I agree with all the positive comments here.

  • What kind of medley was that? I must have completely missed out on that, I wasn't even aware they ever performed any bit out of 11th Earl later on.

    Across the Mama tour it was performed usually around 4th or 5th in the set. It always started with the Mar intro then into Squonk but on a few occasions Ripples, towards the end of the tour it was The Lamb, then usually Firth and sometimes Musical Box.


    It was a bit of a hotchpotch in my view but it probably delighted some. It just seemed particularly short-changing to only have the Mar intro, unless anyone can confirm they ever did more of it than that.

    Abandon all reason

  • Yes, I knew someone somewhere would have sampled it.


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  • It just seemed particularly short-changing to only have the Mar intro, unless anyone can confirm they ever did more of it than that.

    They did on a very few occasions...


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  • They did on a very few occasions...


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    That version has a lot more punch than the album version. The transition to ripples is so abrupt, i'm surprised Banks signed off on it!


    Couple of other thoughts; i love the idea that they mixed it up a little still across a tour, in this fashion. And also, it occurs to me again that it is amazing that Phil was singing and drumming on material like this at a time he was on his way to being in the same group as Madonna and Michael Jackson in terms of musical success.


    Edit: the ripples portion of the medley is heavenly, and the squonk part is very muscular, bordering on very heavy rock. I *really* wish i could have seen this live.

  • https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=F1HCvWW4VCE

    Sorry don’t really know how to insert links properly. If anyone else can do it please help! I was there (as was Diana) to see this. Great to see the bits and they were very well played but I wanted more or all of Mar and none of the segues really worked. It was exactly as Phil described it and felt like a few things thrown together. But still much better than the Turn it on again medley, which was enjoyable but for a band who can’t fit in enough of their own material probably not best use of time.

  • Quote

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  • Hi

    thanks

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  • That version has a lot more punch than the album version. The transition to ripples is so abrupt, i'm surprised Banks signed off on it!


    Couple of other thoughts; i love the idea that they mixed it up a little still across a tour, in this fashion. And also, it occurs to me again that it is amazing that Phil was singing and drumming on material like this at a time he was on his way to being in the same group as Madonna and Michael Jackson in terms of musical success.


    Edit: the ripples portion of the medley is heavenly, and the squonk part is very muscular, bordering on very heavy rock. I *really* wish i could have seen this live.

    At the show I attended on the Mama tour that medley was comprised of Eleventh Earl/Squonk/Firth of Fifth. I thought the transitions worked well from each song to the next (especially Eleventh Earl to Squonk). Where things got clunky for me was they cut out of a good part of Squonk. The transitions within Squonk were more awkward than they were between songs. I have seen a clip (I believe from a show in Oakland, CA) where they added the very end of the Musical Box on after the instrumental section of Firth of Fifth. That is a bit clunky as well. I listen to it expecting Phil to sing "Now as the river dissolves," etc and instead he starts into "I've been waiting here for so long."