GENESIS - UK/Ireland Tour 2020 rescheduled for FALL 2021

Quote from seven-eight

In the US here, Madison Square Garden now has a policy of "no shot, no entry" basically, which means you can't attend any event without proof of a vaccine. This is a very dangerous path as far as I am concerned. This is a path toward segregation of the population which definitely rubs me the wrong way. I hope other venues choose differently.

Segregation? Between those who chose to have the vaccine, and the anti-vaccine muppets. Bring it on. Frankly, if ejecting them from the planet was an option, I'd go for that.

Quote from seven-eight

I would say the politicalization of the issue has led possibly to more deaths. There have been treatments banned, alternative views and information suppressed, all in the name of making this thing into more of a nightmarish scenario than it should be in reality. I know many folks don't believe this because it isn't "mainstream" thinking, but when freedoms are being quickly eroded it makes me think about the reasons why and what impact will this have on our future, both for us and future generations. And for the record, I am not a pro-Trump person.

Alternative Views and information suppressed? Really? Ever heard of Andrew Wakefield? The UK struck him off as a Doctor because of his dubious claims, all unsubstantiated, about vaccine issues. He (along with many others) is now profiting massively from the anti-vax movement, who strangely, feel the need to sell t-shirts, wristband and the like, to their supporters. Far from suppressed, they are thriving, feeding on the stupidity of people with no scientific background but loads of opinion!

Today's news on the delay of England's reopening plans is not good news for the tour.

19th July is just under 2 months til the beginning of the tour in Dublin (which we have our own issues with allowing events here)

Quote from foxfeeder

Far from suppressed, they are thriving, feeding on the stupidity of people with no scientific background but loads of opinion!

Indeed, barely a day goes by when I don't see or hear another dollop of "alternative views" on this. They must be the most vocal shouty loudmouthed suppressed people there's ever been.

Quote from Healy52003

Today's news on the delay of England's reopening plans is not good news for the tour.

19th July is just under 2 months til the beginning of the tour in Dublin (which we have our own issues with allowing events here)

Clearly they need to reschedule the entire tour to Massachusetts. Come, bask in the maskless utopia. What, none of the band are allergic to lobster rolls? What's the excuse then?! Put the booking fee for cancelled venues toward air travel for discommoded fans. Covid vaccine required? You can win a shotgun over here for doing that! It. Makes. Sense. We also have very good beer and if they time it right, you won't burn to a crisp or freeze to death. There's a few hours in September when that happens. I have a big garden for an after party. Let's go.

Quote from vl1

I don't envy you if you're coming from abroad, the hurdles the locals are likely to have to jump through are bad enough, you could end up getting stuck abroad if your country suddenly puts a block on travel.

Also you've got the political silliness between countries in Europe, and the game of one-upmanship going on between Scotland and England, which means Scottish requirements are likely to be more restrictive than elsewhere in the UK. I'd leave it late to book anything.

If the govt cop-out again on a decision about entry requirements to gigs, your entry is at the whim of the venue, who may not have a system in place to accept your paperwork, or require you to show an nhs app which you won't have. I envisage a lot of ticketholders are going to be left watching it on youtube.

If the Wembley euro requirements are the template, it would put me off bothering going to far away gigs, there's far too much to go wrong. At least you can get a beer though without having to look over 40 or produce a passport, like in the land of the free.

It needs to be put back to summer 2022 imo, there's too much uncertainty at this point in time to go ahead. Can't see the Genesis machine getting into gear with all this cross border uncertainty.

There were some figures out recently that 45.2% of the hospital deaths with the delta variant in a certain period, had had one or two jabs already, which if the trend continues puts us back to square one.

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Thanks for your message.

I'm not that pessimistic.

BUT:

The main problem for foreigners remains the 10-day quarantine on the spot...

Quote from Murdock

Because vaccination should not be a need to simply see concerts or anything. Anyway, it is known now that 30 percent of vaccinated are infected by Delta thing. ...

It's known that one dose is 33 per cent effective against the Delta variant but I have seen no information that would suggest 30 per cent of those who received the vaccine ultimately contracted the Delta variant.

As for a pre-vaccination policy, I can certainly remember a time when vaccinations were required before travelling abroad - so this type of policy doesn't seem unprecedented.

Besides the only people who would be negatively impacted by this policy are those who don't intend on being vaccinated.

Frankly, I'm OK with people's lives being inconvenienced if they decide they don't want to take precautions in protecting other people's lives.

Quote from seven-eight

In the US here, Madison Square Garden now has a policy of "no shot, no entry" basically, which means you can't attend any event without proof of a vaccine. This is a very dangerous path as far as I am concerned. This is a path toward segregation of the population which definitely rubs me the wrong way. I hope other venues choose differently.

I find it worrying too. What will the venue deem acceptable proof of vaccination? My son has a card with the dates handwritten in biro by the nurse & Witchwood only has a sticker. Would they be turned away at the door? Or will everyone be forced to carry a personal tracking device (aka a smartphone) to participate in normal life? And once Covid vaccination status is universally accepted as an entry requirement it won’t end there: next winter it’ll be flu vaccination status too, & so on. It’s a slippery slope.

We can't eliminate risk entirely so we need to manage it sensibly. I’ve been vaccinated & that gives me an acceptable level of protection. I have no right whatsoever to insist that everyone else must do the same or be treated like a pariah. Yes, I have a very slightly increased risk of catching Covid at the Genesis concert if someone else is unvaccinated. I also have a slight risk of being hit by a car on the way to the venue, but I’m not going to let either of these remote possibilities stop me going!

Whether we like it or not vaccines work by percentages and numbers. There’s our individual feelings and stats and there are communal stats. They are linked but not the same. Many people in the UK and other places are vaccinated, so, many things have loosened up. But until a critical mass have been jabbed, we are a bit stuck. If we hadn’t worked though these issues in the past we would still be losing our loved ones to preventable disease. The NHS system adds a particular flavour to this. With pandemics the big stats rule and the individual ones are useful to a point, for individuals. Until a large majority in the UK have been jabbed, large scale indoor events run the risk of pushing up the rates and overwhelming the NHS, at a time when they have huge backlogs to clear. That’s why they may not happen when we wish. Of course, these are very much first world problems. Other parts of the globe would love to be wondering if they could go to a gig.

Quote from Ericm

I really don’t want to make this a political thread but care to actually offer some evidence to support your claims? What treatments have been banned? Information suppressed? If you’re going to just throw stuff out there, how about backing it up?

What exactly does “led possibly to more deaths” mean? I mean isn’t the exact opposite “possibly” true as well?

The banned treatment of ivermectin is one such treatment that was shown to save lives and for super cheap. A treatment like that could probably have ended the pandemic months ago, or at least gotten society back to normal.

Loads of information is being suppressed. I have never seen such blatant censorship of information. Regular people's negative reactions to the vaccine have been deleted from social media. Reporters are being told not to report certain information and are starting to come out. Social media platforms are suppressing vaccine hesitancy posts. We have whistleblowers coming out from different places letting us know about these things. I could go on and on...

My "possibly led to more deaths" comment is said because I believe it did lead to more deaths, but given the fluid nature of how we report stats anymore during this pandemic we can't even really be sure of anything statistically. But the idea that the politicalization of the issue could have possibly led to less deaths as I think you are implying is unlikely no matter what you believe.

Quote from foxfeeder

Segregation? Between those who chose to have the vaccine, and the anti-vaccine muppets. Bring it on. Frankly, if ejecting them from the planet was an option, I'd go for that.

So you are pro-segregation and if you had your choice we non-vaxxed human beings would be what, killed? Round up in a camp and sent away somewhere? Correct me if I'm misunderstanding your sentiment because from here it is quite insulting and honestly frightening.

Quote from seven-eight

The banned treatment of ivermectin is one such treatment that was shown to save lives and for super cheap. A treatment like that could probably have ended the pandemic months ago, or at least gotten society back to normal.

Loads of information is being suppressed. I have never seen such blatant censorship of information. Regular people's negative reactions to the vaccine have been deleted from social media. Reporters are being told not to report certain information and are starting to come out. Social media platforms are suppressing vaccine hesitancy posts. We have whistleblowers coming out from different places letting us know about these things. I could go on and on...

My "possibly led to more deaths" comment is said because I believe it did lead to more deaths, but given the fluid nature of how we report stats anymore during this pandemic we can't even really be sure of anything statistically. But the idea that the politicalization of the issue could have possibly led to less deaths as I think you are implying is unlikely no matter what you believe.

I’m not implying anything. Simply saying your “possibly” comment is like my weatherman saying there’s a 50% chance of rain. If that’s the case isn’t it just as likely to not rain?

If you’re getting your info from social media and is what your basing your claims on, then I think I’m done with this discussion.

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Social media is just one of many sources I am getting my information from. However, if you are getting your info from mainstream media you might also want to be as suspicious of that as you are whatever you believe my sources to be.

Quote from Liquid Len

Fellas fellas, you want the straight facts? Yes, what we endured the past year was a deadly pandemic. Yes, a lot of people died. Yes maskwearing, hand washing, etc does curb its spread. Yes, vaccinations have helped to curb the virus. Do we have vaccination hesitancy? Of course we do. Do grown adults have the right to make their own decisions? Of course they do. Damn skippy. Even if its a bad decision. As a nurse I’ve watched people die from it, it’s a helpless feeling . We’re all going to get through this.

It’s like Genesis said: “It’s Gonna Get Better”.

Quote from seven-eight

The banned treatment of ivermectin is one such treatment that was shown to save lives and for super cheap. A treatment like that could probably have ended the pandemic months ago, or at least gotten society back to normal.

Loads of information is being suppressed. I have never seen such blatant censorship of information. Regular people's negative reactions to the vaccine have been deleted from social media. Reporters are being told not to report certain information and are starting to come out. Social media platforms are suppressing vaccine hesitancy posts. We have whistleblowers coming out from different places letting us know about these things. I could go on and on...

My "possibly led to more deaths" comment is said because I believe it did lead to more deaths, but given the fluid nature of how we report stats anymore during this pandemic we can't even really be sure of anything statistically. But the idea that the politicalization of the issue could have possibly led to less deaths as I think you are implying is unlikely no matter what you believe.

In the Uk our national health service discovered that Dexamethasone, a cheap drug costing a few dollars a box, has been effective in treating cases of Covid and is now used all over the world. Why would they possibly not use ivermectin if it worked? The NHS reported that its anti-viral and anti- inflammatory properties were insufficiently robust to warrant any further study.

Quote from seven-eight

So you are pro-segregation and if you had your choice we non-vaxxed human beings would be what, killed? Round up in a camp and sent away somewhere? Correct me if I'm misunderstanding your sentiment because from here it is quite insulting and honestly frightening.

No, just don't let the unvaccinated travel internationally, attend large events, etc. They've made their choice, rights come with responsibilities, and the unvaccinated have a responsibility to others around them. And as such, the UK government, much too late IMO, are talking about making vaccination a legal requirement for workers in care homes. How can you care for the old and frail when you may be carrying a potentially fatal (to them) virus. Yes, the vaccine doesn't give a 100% guarantee against you being infectious, but it's pretty damn close.

Mu mother is 99 this month. She's had 2 doses, she is fine, as am I, my wife, her sister (in remission from cancer) and everyone else I know who has had one or both jabs. Begs the question: WHAT is frightening? Might I suggest you stop following social media muppets (The majority on there, in my experience) and listen to people who have a clue, like Prof Chris Smith, Prof Linda Bauld, and the like who take time out of their work to explain the science, the stats, and much else, every week on the BBC. There MUST be similar people in the US.

Not much I can do about you feeling insulted, I'm afraid, but as I can't see you changing your views, like Ericm, I'm done with this discussion.

The Electric Picnic Festival in Ireland has applied for a licence and has changed its dates to the weekend of 24th/25th/26th September from the first weekend in September

Me thinks no way in hell Arena sized gigs will be permitted by then in Ireland and now with the changes in the UK, the tour will likely be postponed again to hopefully early 2022 or maybe even cancelled outright

Quote from Murdock

That is the main problem. Everyone who thinks for themselves and has an opinion is being demonized.

Today, I am learning what it must have been like in Germany 80 years ago.

In fact, you have just perfectly articulated the problem underlying so much public discourse in the last few years; that completely polarised binary absolutism. It obviously simply isn't the case that "everyone who thinks for themselves and has an opinion is being demonized". And no, today you're not "learning what it must have been like in Germany 80 years ago". That is both ridiculous and a huge insult to people who did experience that.