Would anything on the trio albums have fit well on the previous albums?

    Quote from Duke of Earl of Mar

    Well... Actually, this is one of these songs that could have fit on previous albums, to me...

    I can easily hear Gabriel singing it (the big "Oh-Ohhhhh !" before the second verse and the bridge in the song, same as here, kind of : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efEEe2oGCUc , or just here https://youtu.be/1IanjpQoW54?t=224 , the laugh (Haha - Ha) could also be quite theatrical in a Gabrielesque way...

    The guitar is very reminiscent of Hackett, I think (volume swells, vibrato effects at the beginning, and the solo at the end could easily be played by him).

    Personally, I can't see it or rather hear it. Mama only happened because of the success of ITAT which was rejected by Genesis or at least by Tony, pretty much the same at that time. Yes, I know it was Mike's song but it was pretty much conceived with that arrangement and atmosphere in mind, drums machine driven, with Phil's drums sound kicking in, stripped down keyboards and spooky, eerie sounds, as such I can't really see it on any 5 or 4 man era album. I don't even need to invoke the missing members to back that up, there's no way Tony would have played it like that and held back that much for that matter on any album up until Duke.

    Quote from Lazlor

    Do you have any idea how ridiculous that statement sounds? Especially on this forum where loving the pap era as much as the prog era is not just expected, but downright mandatory?


    'Mama' has its raw side, sure, complete with thunderous drumming and studio trickery. And Phil's pain is palpable. However we're talking music here, and the actual tune is best qualified as nondescript, while the screams/gurgles are just annoying.


    But I agree this song is probably one of the trio's best.

    It isn't 'mandatory' at all, but your use of the word 'pap'reminds me that there is no point engaging with you.

    Quote from FeelItComing

    It isn't 'mandatory' at all, but your use of the word 'pap'reminds me that there is no point engaging with you.

    If I can throw my unasked for two penneth in. I have always found people on this forum to be a friendly bunch. I like your previous comment about not feeding the troll, which I guess I may be doing right now! Some people have unfortunately never gotten over the shock of PG leaving and have remained the permanently angry for 45 years. The mere thought of anything from the trio going on an earlier album can be enough to throw some people over the edge. Sympathy is required for such cases.

    If there was a song from the trio era that would fit into the previous era or so, it would have to be Deep In The Motherlode. It has unique sections and it’s a rocking number to open with. Ofc they did use it as a opening number during the trio era but could you imagine that shit on the Wind & Wuthering tour when Hackett was around???

    Almost all the songs of ATTWT could have been played with Steve Hackett.

    The songs canvas and the overall sound are still 100% "classic Genesis", even if the songs are shorter.

    One exception could be FYFM. I don't think Steve would have been happy to play the guitar part (simple and repetitive, but so effective and nice-sounding - yes I like that song). He had done it already on Pigeons, and we know how it ended (well, not specifically because of that song, that I like too btw, but you see my point I guess).

    I know that album is not very well considered by the fans and especially the band itself. I understand why. Sure, W&W and Duke have "stronger" material. A thing that I like about Genesis is how their albums from Selling to Duke are constructed. Aside from the Lamb, none of these albums are strict "concept albums", but there are lots of musical bits to link pieces together (DWTMK/Aisle of plenty, DOAV/Squonk/Los Endos, EEOM/In That Quiet Earth and OFTV/Wot Gorilla, the Duke Suite). ATTWT doesn't have that. Still, the songs are good (even Ballad of Big or Scenes from a Night's dream which subjectively are not their strongest efforts, with a few others like Another Record, Anything She Does, Never A Time... at least to my ears).

    And I think it has their most powerful and promising opening track ever.

    Quote from Duke of Earl of Mar

    Almost all the songs of ATTWT could have been played with Steve Hackett.

    The songs canvas and the overall sound are still 100% "classic Genesis", even if the songs are shorter.

    One exception could be FYFM. I don't think Steve would have been happy to play the guitar part (simple and repetitive, but so effective and nice-sounding - yes I like that song). He had done it already on Pigeons, and we know how it ended (well, not specifically because of that song, that I like too btw, but you see my point I guess).

    I know that album is not very well considered by the fans and especially the band itself. I understand why. Sure, W&W and Duke have "stronger" material. A thing that I like about Genesis is how their album from Selling to Duke are constructed. Aside from the Lamb, none of these albums are strict "concept albums", but there are lots of musical bits to link pieces together (DWTMK/Aisle of plenty, DOAV/Squonk/Los Endos, EEOM/In That Quiet Earth and OFTV/Wot Gorilla, the Duke Suite). ATTWT doesn't have that. Still, the songs are good (even Ballad of Big or Scenes from a Night's dream which subjectively are not their strongest efforts, with a few others like Another Record, Anything She Does, Never A Time... at least to my ears).

    And I think it has their most powerful and promising opening track ever.

    Ditto . I really like ATTWT it feels atmospheric .However there are a few songs that I would be great to hear Steve on . SIAJ and BR are two songs I love but I always imagine how they would sound if extended with a Steve solo swirling around.

    Quote from thefarmer

    Ditto . I really like ATTWT it feels atmospheric .However there are a few songs that I would be great to hear Steve on . SIAJ and BR are two songs I love but I always imagine how they would sound if extended with a Steve solo swirling around.

    It's interesting you say that, the atmospheric end of Ballad of Big is one of my favourite sections in Genesis music, a lot to do with what Tony's picking out on the Yamaha piano. I think Steve could've added some real magic to this sections as well.


    As for later stuff, I guess the Tony solo songs I could hear being done earlier with Peter, in the sense of Seven Stones and Time Table. Things like Cul-de-sac perhaps. Probably the hardest thing to reconcile is the amount of polyphonic synths used in the late 70s and early 80s which is really alien to the Peter Gabriel era. If they were done with Hammond, piano and mellotron I'm sure it would be easier to imagine Peter singing them.

    Quote

    the atmospheric end of Ballad of Big

    True. The bassline at the end is great also. I said maybe it was not one of their strongest effort, but I can't help but like it anyway. Funny song with a catchy chorus.

    i can hear peter in certain epic songs with fierce vocals, such as dodo/luker or cul-de-sac.


    dreaming while you sleep is similar to no self control, from peter's third solo album.


    i agree that steve is missed in many songs from 'and then there were three'. genesis didn't become a proper trio until 'duke'.

    Quote from thefarmer

    If I can throw my unasked for two penneth in. I have always found people on this forum to be a friendly bunch. I like your previous comment about not feeding the troll, which I guess I may be doing right now! Some people have unfortunately never gotten over the shock of PG leaving and have remained the permanently angry for 45 years. The mere thought of anything from the trio going on an earlier album can be enough to throw some people over the edge. Sympathy is required for such cases.

    No anger here. A LOT of anger from fanbois directed at me, however.


    My POV is strictly musical : the band's output becomes less and less interesting as they shed members, culminating in the post-W&W/ATTWT keyboard demo albums.


    Way I look at it: from 1980 on, there is precious little 'prog' left in the music, but most importantly, there is no longer any 'rock' either.

    Quote from Lazlor

    No anger here. A LOT of anger from fanbois directed at me, however.


    My POV is strictly musical : the band's output becomes less and less interesting as they shed members, culminating in the post-W&W/ATTWT keyboard demo albums.


    Way I look at it: from 1980 on, there is precious little 'prog' left in the music, but most importantly, there is no longer any 'rock' either.

    I must say I'm not really a fan of your style, on occasion bordering on trolling, some other time overtly doing it. I find your positions certainly dogmatic, although sometimes they amuse me. The point is, none of what you say bothers me the least, what bothers is the increased intolerance displayed lately towards people's opinions, it wasn't like that before and I think we are regressing. People are genuinely irritated by others' opinion and taste and have no problems getting personal.

    Not trolling: just voicing unpopular opinions without sugar-coating them. And that's all too much for some people here, apparently.


    I find this especially weird as the importance of the band in the grand scheme of things is just about universally recognized as centering on the er... Hackett era :)

    Quote from Lazlor

    Not trolling: just voicing unpopular opinions without sugar-coating them. And that's all too much for some people here, apparently.


    I find this especially weird as the importance of the band in the grand scheme of things is just about universally recognized as centering on the er... Hackett era :)


    Quote from Lazlor

    Not trolling: just voicing unpopular opinions without sugar-coating them. And that's all too much for some people here, apparently.


    I find this especially weird as the importance of the band in the grand scheme of things is just about universally recognized as centering on the er... Hackett era :)

    Yeah, well the Hackett era.....

    Not sure what you mean by 'facts and figures', but why argue? It's shorthand for something we all understand: a very specific period (that also happens to be THE defining era of the band) and that cannot easily be described any other way.

    Edited once, last by Lazlor ().

    Here is the one contradiction in the whole “they went to hell in a hand basket after Hackett left” argument: Hackett himself claims he left because he wasn’t getting enough of his ideas through on the albums. If that’s true (as Hackett himself claims), his impact on the music of the “golden era” was, by his own admission, not as substantial as was the input from other members. Thus the changes in the music beginning with ATTWT were driven not by his absence but by conscious decisions by the other members begin to move in a different direction. And for what it’s worth IMO there were elements on Duke (BTL, Duchess, Heathaze, Duke’s Travels/End) that were fine representations of early 80s prog rock. Like it or not (pun intended) the Supper’s Ready/Close to the Edge era of prog was over.