20, 21, 22 September | Genesis live in BIRMINGHAM | reports **SPOILERS**

Quote from Schrottrocker

Thanks for your efforts! A few notes though:

Isn't That's All in E minor originally so this would be 1,5 notes lower in C#?

And I think I remember Follow You Follow Me was in G originally so it would be 1 note lower in F.

Same with Carpet Crawlers, the intro is in E but from the verses onwards it was in D, so they probably took it down one whole note?

By the way, I am one of those people that do not have perfect pitch but I have very good relative pitch: give me a reference note (this is a C or whatever) and I can tell you all intervals and chords and everything, without a reference note I am lost though.

Going from C minor to E minor is quite a distance in the circle of fifths, if you add a semitone (C->F or B->E) it would actually be smoother, at least in theory...

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Good that someone was paying more attention than me. Yes, That's All is only 1.5 steps down and although Carpet Crawlers starts in E (which is what I had in my head), the main song is in D, so they are doing it only 1 full step down. I made the corrections to my original post.

Quote from pcontos

If they did rehearse [Abacab] though, I fear that it would be the edited version since that again is what is on the CD set. That to me would be worse than not playing it at all

That would be worse. I'm not a big fan of the single edit, but if I was doing a compilation, Abacab would either be a live version or the Single. I've never liked the sparse instrumental section on the album.

Quote from Mild Mannered Superman

Mick Jagger, with some exceptions ("Paint It Black") still handles just about every song in their original key, and his falsetto is very strong even at 78. Paul Stanley is in worse shape vocally than Phil is, in my opinion. Phil at least knows his limitations.

Didn't mick use to tune down a lot? I swear every live recording I heard in the 80s and early 90s he sounded significantly lower than the album version...even on satisfaction, which seems like a pretty easy song to me.

Quote from drw4d

What I've noticed is the pace, at least in 2nd HBTS. They seem to be playing it at about the same pace as they did in '92, which for me, is way too fast. '84 and '07, they seemed to play it a little slower, giving it more space and weight. This faster pace thins it out some for me. No need to rush it; take your time and let that mood settle in and build. Just my 2 cents.

I actually like SHBTS speeded up a bit, but I respect everyone's opinion. I know how you fell, as that is exactly how I felt with the 87 version of Abacab. Way too damn fast....

Quote from Gabbleratchet

That would be worse. I'm not a big fan of the single edit, but if I was doing a compilation, Abacab would either be a live version or the Single. I've never liked the sparse instrumental section on the album.

While the live version is the best, I actually like the single edit and how it fades out with the main riff. The original album version is the worst - we get nothing.

Quote from Methos

I actually like SHBTS speeded up a bit, but I respect everyone's opinion. I know you how you felt, as that is exactly how I felt with the 87 version of Abacab. Way too damn fast....

100% with Abacab '87; way too fast. I definitely prefer the earlier versions of that when it's slowed down a bit.

Quote from drw4d

100% with Abacab '87; way too fast. I definitely prefer the earlier versions of that when it's slowed down a bit.

Both the 3SL and Mama Tour were good versions of Abacab. TBH, I wasn't a big fan of the IT tour. I much preferred the WCD tour (though I liked the light design of Mama and IT over it). Anyone know what happned to Alan Owen? As I recall, he wasn't involved on WCD, though someone else with his surname was credited with lighting.

Quote from Methos

I actually like SHBTS speeded up a bit, but I respect everyone's opinion. I know you how you felt, as that is exactly how I felt with the 87 version of Abacab. Way too damn fast....

The best version they've done of that imo

Quote from Gabbleratchet

That would be worse. I'm not a big fan of the single edit, but if I was doing a compilation, Abacab would either be a live version or the Single. I've never liked the sparse instrumental section on the album.

Wow, I love the full version and play it often

Quote from choccy

Wow, I love the full version and play it often

I guess it doesn't matter as we will never hear it live!

The original HBTS/Second is the best. Both the Philly and LA versions have a nice bass mix and Phil's drumming is amazing.

Speaking of versions, does anybody else love the original Duke tour of Turn it On Again? I think it's the Musica version - I love it on so many levels. Tony's keys have more of a piano sound and Phil's vocals are much different. You can tell it was a new song for them. Every version after that is so/so.

Quote from pcontos

I am still so disappointed that Abacab didn't make it since it is/was so popular and gives the set another harder rock song.

Nice interview here… officially on standby, but a visual prepared and rehearsed so maybe you’ll get to hear it yet

Quote from BassAnd12Man

Thanks. Man, these songs are unrecognizable transposed so low. I remember thinking the same thing in '07 with Ripples and other songs but this seems much worse. Duchess also lost a lot of its punch in a lower key. I realize that this is the current reality. Also noticed quite a few flubs in some of the posted videos (e.g. Banks was off tempo pretty badly in Cinema Show last night). Hopefully, opening tour jitters.

Unrecognisable? How do you know they played Duchess?

A lot has been said about the speed and pitch of the the songs. In depth analysis how they playing . I would like to post something form another angle. I'm not a musician and wouldn't know an A from an E or a Z for that matter. I rarely analyse music .

I for one would have been less happy if they had played perfectly and re created perfect versions of the original pieces. I like see things being done differently.

They are all getting on . This.tour is intended to be a farewell. Phil is not well. Voice not what it was. This was a tremendous show. Quite emotional. Phil joking about his voice, air drumming on occasions, ( looking a little sad and proud at the same time) doing the old routines one last time. The video throughout TIAA brought on a tear I don't mind admitting as did Fading Lights, it often does with me but Phil linked it with our Covid year and having lost people made it especially poignant. They didn't play perfectly, even I noticed the occasional moment of being off. Did it matter? Not I jot . I really wasn't expecting the show to be as good as it was but it held up as being one of their best. For me. Nic's drumming was out of this world . The light show just gets better . The love and warmth shown towards the band , especially to Phil from the crowd was uplifting,. especially when Phil did his sit down tambourine routine! Live music is about the moment .Players and crowd connecting . The time and place . The fun, the emotion. Genesis had it all. They held me in wonder , not for the first time . Genesis wanted to say a goodbye and so did the fans. Am going to say goodbye to them again , for last time I believe tomorrow. Can't wait!

Quote from thefarmer

A lot has been said about the speed and pitch of the the songs. In depth analysis how they playing . I would like to post something form another angle. I'm not a musician and wouldn't know an A from an E or a Z for that matter. I rarely analyse music .

I for one would have been less happy if they had played perfectly and re created perfect versions of the original pieces. I like see things being done differently.

They are all getting on . This.tour is intended to be a farewell. Phil is not well. Voice not what it was. This was a tremendous show. Quite emotional. Phil joking about his voice, air drumming on occasions, ( looking a little sad and proud at the same time) doing the old routines one last time. The video throughout TIAA brought on a tear I don't mind admitting as did Fading Lights, it often does with me but Phil linked it with our Covid year and having lost people made it especially poignant. They didn't play perfectly, even I noticed the occasional moment of being off. Did it matter? Not I jot . I really wasn't expecting the show to be as good as it was but it held up as being one of their best. For me. Nic's drumming was out of this world . The light show just gets better . The love and warmth shown towards the band , especially to Phil from the crowd was uplifting,. especially when Phil did his sit down tambourine routine! Live music is about the moment .Players and crowd connecting . The time and place . The fun, the emotion. Genesis had it all. They held me in wonder , not for the first time . Genesis wanted to say a goodbye and so did the fans. Am going to say goodbye to them again , for last time I believe tomorrow. Can't wait!

Wonderfully said.

Quote from thefarmer

A lot has been said about the speed and pitch of the the songs. In depth analysis how they playing . I would like to post something form another angle. I'm not a musician and wouldn't know an A from an E or a Z for that matter. I rarely analyse music .

I for one would have been less happy if they had played perfectly and re created perfect versions of the original pieces. I like see things being done differently.

They are all getting on . This.tour is intended to be a farewell. Phil is not well. Voice not what it was. This was a tremendous show. Quite emotional. Phil joking about his voice, air drumming on occasions, ( looking a little sad and proud at the same time) doing the old routines one last time. The video throughout TIAA brought on a tear I don't mind admitting as did Fading Lights, it often does with me but Phil linked it with our Covid year and having lost people made it especially poignant. They didn't play perfectly, even I noticed the occasional moment of being off. Did it matter? Not I jot . I really wasn't expecting the show to be as good as it was but it held up as being one of their best. For me. Nic's drumming was out of this world . The light show just gets better . The love and warmth shown towards the band , especially to Phil from the crowd was uplifting,. especially when Phil did his sit down tambourine routine! Live music is about the moment .Players and crowd connecting . The time and place . The fun, the emotion. Genesis had it all. They held me in wonder , not for the first time . Genesis wanted to say a goodbye and so did the fans. Am going to say goodbye to them again , for last time I believe tomorrow. Can't wait!

I see what you mean and I actually agree, if you approach it like that, it really shouldn't matter what keys songs are in and how tight they are playing. In this respect it becomes a sentimental occasion, it 's about the memories and bidding farewell which is great. I just wince when I read they sound good.

Highlights from yesterday, some very touching moments in here. Watch when they do Fading Lights....

Still haven't had time to write up my notes yet, but I wanted to add that Fading Lights was a lot better in this context. When Tony first wrote the lyrics it didn't really seem to fit, but given all the stuff that's happened since then and their own aging, I can believe it now. Especially when Phil sings it.

We went to all three shows in Birmingham,

Monday night: Band a bit unsure of the reaction, they were cautious. Production was for an arena tour rather epic. Audience enjoyed the show, some drunks dancing, some women dancing to the two songs they knew (That's all and Invisible Touch).

Tuesday night: Band starting to get more confidence, Mike starting to rock it out... (I know how unlikely that sounds), Production more slick and Phil's voice got a bit stronger.

Wednesday night: Band much more confident, Phil joking more with the audience, Mike rocking it out quite a bit and the production has evolved.

Overall view, Phil's no spring chicken , voice is what it is. Yes he forgot some words, yes Tony made some mistakes and then glared at everyone else, yes Mike made some mistakes and just laughed it off and shook his head. We got to see Geoff Callingham getting introduced owing to a lead in a keyboard not working properly.

Fans for the most part, from people bringing their sons/daughters to people the same age as the band. People from Germany and America, Ireland, France and the UK in the audience.

Tony Smith was spotted a few times, the merchandise is what it is... although the cost of the tour programme has remained the same since the late 1990's.

The venue isn't the greatest, but it did its job, although a few sound issues relating to the venue acoustics.

The set list is the same, although emotions change from night to night. I went from disliking Throwing it all away to liking it.

The new members of the band (backing singers) did a great job.

All in all, I spent over £600 on tickets ranging from block F to block B, and finally got a front row ticket. Nic Collins is a fantastic drummer, a hybrid of drumming styles but he certainly has his dad's talent.

The VIP package we did not have, but it must have been galling to some of those who spent £766 on a ticket to be in the same row as a guy who spent £182 on a ticket. Due to ticket returns there is a real chance of getting a better seat for £182 at the venues.

Worth every penny and it was great to see Genesis at last, to be there on the final run!

Kind regards,

TGA