Are Genesis becoming un uncool? Or is it me.?

Quote from thefarmer

For years and years and years Genesis have been vilified, hated, and generally regarded as uncool and boring by so many. I hear fans saying things like " I like Genesis for my sins" or "I'm afraid" apologising and clearly embarrassed to admit it. Pink Floyd and Led Zep always have been super cool with loads of young people really into them. It's been clear their music will live on famously for many many years but I must admit I thought Genesis might get forgotten. However things feel a bit different now. I can't give examples but my general feeling is that Genesis are becoming more accepted now. Phil in particular has had it the neck but he seems to be becoming more highly regarded as history looks back at his career. Dare I say he starting to become "cool" . Is this a thing or is it just me?

I don't think Genesis are uncool, as you would put it. They will always be regarded as legends in the rock industry for many generations to come.

Does 'cool' mean liked or fashionable. It was never fashionable to like ABBA, but everyone did (many secretly!). I think it's partly because Genesis transcend narrow categorisation. I don't think it's hyperbole to compare their compositions to the great classical composers. When you strip their sound down to just a piano arrangement, you can hear how special they are and how long-lived their music will be.

It's the same with Bowie, when you hear Rick Wakeman play Space Oddity and Life on Mars, you realise how special he was (if you didn't already).

I think there's an extent to which, Genesis / Phil made the "mistake" of becoming popular, and then too popular. There's something to being into a "cult band", that allows those in the know, to know that they are cool. But when suddenly everyone loves your favorite band, you're just another one of the folks that jumped on the bandwagon, even if you've loved them from the beginning. I think sometimes there's an aversion to admitting being a Genesis fan now, because so many people associate them with the 80s, and often equate them with Phil's solo career. Maybe it's easier to be sheepish about it, than to be that guy who's explaining, "No, really, they're so much more than Invisible Touch, and they aren't Sussudio." Mansplaining your favorite band is ... not a good look.

I think there have been two incarnations of Genesis, not with and without PG, but between classical Genesis (up to Duke) and popular Genesis (post Duke). Duke was the last studio album I bought, as the more Phil influenced material left me behind. I can listen to the newer songs when included on live recordings/DVDs etc, but otherwise I don't play the more recent popular stuff.

Quote from Noni

I don't think Genesis are uncool, as you would put it. They will always be regarded as legends in the rock industry for many generations to come.

I totally agree

I think this is really a music journalists' thing. That public school boys band that don't know shit about rock'n'roll dumped their lead singer and the guy who divorced his wife by fax took them to the abysses of commercial sell-out...blah blah blah. There's always people who for a lack of ego follow those tabloid writers - who cares. Anyone who has an individual taste in music can see the merits of Genesis, whether you like it is up to you.

Quote from KeithC

I think there have been two incarnations of Genesis, not with and without PG, but between classical Genesis (up to Duke) and popular Genesis (post Duke). Duke was the last studio album I bought, as the more Phil influenced material left me behind. I can listen to the newer songs when included on live recordings/DVDs etc, but otherwise I don't play the more recent popular stuff.

This is well-trodden territory but I don't think it's what's being discussed in this thread. That said, for what it's worth, I think it's misleading to say "the more Phil-influenced material". It's often said but it's not accurate. As PC himself once said in response to claims he had steered the band in a more 'commercial' direction, "Try making Tony Banks do something he doesn't want to; it just doesn't happen" - his point being that it's wrong to think he himself was solely or chiefly responsible for what direction Genesis took.

As to Mr.Farmer 's "un-uncool" query, it's an interesting one. Genesis definitely seemed to have become one of the ultimate 'uncool' bands to like even before PC's massive solo success made him, and by association them, seem annoyingly ubiquitous and naff. But beyond the sneering music press and members of the public being dismissive of them, there's always been an undercurrent of admiration for them in the industry on the basis they were good musicians who produced interesting work. I've mentioned this before - in the late 70s when the popular but inaccurate belief was that punk had supposedly "killed off" classic 70s rock and prog, it was conveniently overlooked that the punks and new-wavers often grew up listening to and liking that stuff. While some avoided admitting it in order to maintain 'cred' others had no problem acknowledging it. My favourite example is always Viv Albertine of The Slits, reggae/ska-tinged punk rockers, in a discussion of this very topic saying she's always been very partial to Genesis, and she wasn't alone in saying so among the punk fraternity. Foo Fighters and Radiohead, not punks but punk/new-wave influenced, are seen as cool - both Dave Grohl and Thom Yorke have expressed a liking for Genesis (and Yorke for PG's work also). Some rappers and hip-hoppers have spoken of their admiration for PC's solo work and he's often acknowledged by other musicians for his drumming.

So it's never truly been as black and white "Genesis - BLEEAAARRGGH!" as journos would have us believe. And I think younger generations have enjoyed discovering their work, as evidenced by some on this board coming to them late on, even post their studio career. At a Lush gig in London I got chatting with a group of young women, all around 20, initiated by my remarking on the King Crimson t-shirt one was wearing. Two of them were huge Genesis fans but amusingly one was very PG-era and the other all about the trio. I say 'amusingly' as it was quite funny seeing that 'divide' occur even among relatively new younger fans! (And they actually did have an argument about it - some things never change, eh?)

As to whether they are now officially de-uncooled, I'm not sure but I don't think there's the automatic dismissal of them there once was.

However, despite my comments on younger fans still coming through I'd question the above assertion that they'll be considered "rock legends for generations to come". It'd be nice of course but I don't feel any certainty about that at all. Some consider them as such now, but I doubt it will persist.

Quote from Schrottrocker

I think this is really a music journalists' thing. That public school boys band that don't know shit about rock'n'roll dumped their lead singer and the guy who divorced his wife by fax took them to the abysses of commercial sell-out...blah blah blah. There's always people who for a lack of ego follow those tabloid writers - who cares. Anyone who has an individual taste in music can see the merits of Genesis, whether you like it is up to you.

I posted my ramblings above to find you'd said effectively the same, in about a tenth of the time!

But just to add to Mr.Farmer 's remark about people being irritatingly sheepish about "admitting" they like Genesis. I see this when people "confess" to liking any kind of prog. Wakeman joked that at one point it had got so that you practically had to buy prog albums in brown paper bags to hide them like they were porn or something.

Quote from thefarmer

I hear fans saying things like " I like Genesis for my sins" or "I'm afraid" apologising and clearly embarrassed to admit it.

Yes I saw a tv game show contestant do this stupid sheepish face-pulling routine, saying he liked "70s prog, I'm afraid - for my sins". He actually did use that idiotic phrase! (which I've always found annoying anyway).

I also agree that the general view of genesis is in contrast to the acceptance of, eg, Floyd. As I've said before, while I find their work less varied and interesting than Genesis I reckon they acquired some kudos by having an eccentric front man who went peculiar and reclusive then died. PG made the error of becoming hugely successful (although he does seem to rightly command some respect for his innovative work). And let's face it, the members of Floyd weren't exactly gor-blimey salt-of-the-earth types either.

Quote from KeithC

It was never fashionable to like ABBA, but everyone did (many secretly!)

Obviously hugely popular but not everyone liked them - bar the odd song I've never been keen, they're too shiny and sugary but no question those two blokes wrote some stonking tunes. I think the originator of this thread will have something to say about your 'everyone' assertion!

Quote

Does 'cool' mean liked or fashionable.

Good question - what exactly does it mean indeed? Definitely more fashionable - 'liked' could mean Coldplay, who are massively popular but it seems to me they're the most hated, derided band in existence.

I think what’s interesting about Genesis and their popularity with the general public is that many people won’t have a clue there was a “Calling All Stations” era of the group in fact if you played that album to many folks familiar with the Mega popularity period they possibly wouldn’t have a clue who it was!.

To me Genesis went sort of full circle to an unknown quantity more or less like how they started.
i definitely feel they were more cool when they appealed to long haired students in the early 70s than they did in the I Can’t Dance period which I feel is terribly dated and “of it’s time”. Trespass and Other albums of that era are timeless and will remain cool I feel and appreciated for Decades to come.

TB enjoyed having hits (that's clear from his many interviews), and that influence came from Phil, who over time and with his growing confidence, steered them in a different direction.

Quote from KeithC

TB enjoyed having hits (that's clear from his many interviews), and that influence came from Phil, who over time and with his growing confidence, steered them in a different direction.

I disagree. Remember TB and the others, right from the start at school, wanted to write hits for other performers - that was their aim. PC certainly grew in confidence and contributed more lyrics but as he himself has said he didn't "steer" them.

But you shouldn't in any way feel persecuted for your opinion of a band (NB Farmer, I know you don't like Abba and I do, but I hope I haven't derided you for it). It was a shame during Sum Of The Parts when Al Murray felt he had to say 'I'm out' as a Genesis fan - out of the closet.

The PG - cool & PC - uncool is another thing, which annoys me greatly, but that isn't the subject of the topic.

If you want another example of a hugely successful band that seems to suffer nothing but derision it is my beloved Dire Straits. Hence Mark Knopfler's solo career goes ignored. Again I don't want to derail the thread, just point out that it isn't only Genesis.

It's a very interesting, complicated topic.

Genesis are cool as fuck, the problem is that no one knows it (except us).

Quote from Backdrifter

At a Lush gig in London I got chatting with a group of young women, all around 20, initiated by my remarking on the King Crimson t-shirt one was wearing.

🤯 By what voodoo did you live out a dream of mine years before I had it?

Judging by the number of reaction videos by young people on YouTube to Genesis and Phil Collins material (most of which in the case of Genesis is prog-era stuff) I think it’s safe to say that there is a young generation of fans of their music who don’t even realize it is/was supposed to be uncool to like Genesis. In addition there are a growing number of young performers recording tribute videos to the band’s music. See below for an example

Another cover by young Camila Pocovi. The music lives on

In any Evergreen Radio there are songs by Genesis '80, Phil Collins, Peter Gabriel hits and Mike & The Mechanics!

Quote from MoonlitKnight

I think it’s safe to say that there is a young generation of fans of their music who don’t even realize it is/was supposed to be uncool to like Genesis.

I reckon this is a really key point, the notion that younger generations don't have any of that 'uncool' baggage. It's just stuff that's out there to be discovered and like if you happen to. As it should be.