[SPOILERS] GENESIS 2021 setlist discussion

My Setlist

Intro

Dance On A Volcano

- Lamb Lies Down On Broadway

- Musical Box

Duchess

Throwing It All Away

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Good Eavening

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Mama

In The Cage

- Apokalypse 9 /8

- Lover's Leep

That's All

Land of Confusion

No Son Of Mine

In Too Deep

Carpet Crawlers

Follow You, Follow Me

Your Owen Special Way

Home By The Sea

Jesus He Knows Me

Tonight Tonight Tonight

Invisible Touch

Hold On My Heart

Domino

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I Can't Dance

Turn It On Again

Schaun 'ma mal😆😆😆

I think the most likely surprises are Squonk, Many Too Many, or maybe Watcher of the Skies. I expect one or more of those.

Other than those, I suspect most of the guesses above are going to be close to the mark.

I always wonder how many of the fans who bought albums like IT and WCD and were new to Genesis, are still die hard fans or was just a passing music phase in the 80's?

The setlists seem to be made up of numerous songs from this period, but would the majority of people buying tickets for 2021 prefer a more varied setlist?

Personally I could easily give WCD, HOMH and LOC a miss for something else

Quote from Simon1967

Personally I could easily give WCD, HOMH and LOC a miss for something else

I can't listen to those three songs, but, they did help build on the band's previous successes. Personally, I'm into their less direct stuff even though the hits are what the majority of casual fans seem interested in.

Quote from Simon1967

I always wonder how many of the fans who bought albums like IT and WCD and were new to Genesis, are still die hard fans or was just a passing music phase in the 80's?

The setlists seem to be made up of numerous songs from this period, but would the majority of people buying tickets for 2021 prefer a more varied setlist?

Personally I could easily give WCD, HOMH and LOC a miss for something else

My guess is the fans who go to see them in 2021 would agree with you. But the band themselves seem to have always labored under the assumption that concert goers will riot if they don't hear all of the band's biggest hits, treating them on some level like Rick Astley fans expecting to hear Never Gonna Give You Up. Maybe there are a handful of attendees who remember IT on the radio and decide to bumble along for the fun. But I doubt that will be the majority.

See also the multitude of rants I have posted about setlists that don't vary in a tour, which greatly restricts the scope to throw in deep cuts for longer term fans. Let them play ICD and HOMH, but why every night?

Quote from thewatcher

My guess is the fans who go to see them in 2021 would agree with you. But the band themselves seem to have always labored under the assumption that concert goers will riot if they don't hear all of the band's biggest hits, treating them on some level like Rick Astley fans expecting to hear Never Gonna Give You Up. Maybe there are a handful of attendees who remember IT on the radio and decide to bumble along for the fun. But I doubt that will be the majority.

See also the multitude of rants I have posted about setlists that don't vary in a tour, which greatly restricts the scope to throw in deep cuts for longer term fans. Let them play ICD and HOMH, but why every night?

I agree. I think by now their full career has been given a listen by much of the attendees of their current day concerts. Back maybe in the 80s and 90s when they were the big radio and MTV stars, you could see why they would lean towards playing those songs for the average assumed concert goer. But now with so much time elapsed since then and a more accepted universal view of their career, not to mention an entirely new generation of fans who never saw them play before, they should realize there is an equal (if not greater) appetite for non-hits and pre-Invisible Touch material.

They have such a large selection to choose from that they should be able to mix it up nightly, even if just in a few instances.

Quote from Simon1967

I always wonder how many of the fans who bought albums like IT and WCD and were new to Genesis, are still die hard fans or was just a passing music phase in the 80's?

The setlists seem to be made up of numerous songs from this period, but would the majority of people buying tickets for 2021 prefer a more varied setlist?

Personally I could easily give WCD, HOMH and LOC a miss for something else

Admittedly, I tend to characterize pop fans as having as much of a fleeting interest in music as they have in fashion – discarding what was popular yesterday, and moving on to what’s leading edge today.

But I also know it’s presumptuous to think these same fans would all turn down the opportunity to spend an evening out with friends to see a band that was generating hits 30, 35 years ago.

Concert goers are always a mix of die-hards, holding onto faint hopes of an obscure track being performed, and people who just want a fun night out, enjoying an evening of live music and nostalgia (and maybe a little catching up with friends during the quiet bits of less familiar songs).

At a Genesis concert in 2022, I would expect the latter would make up the vast majority.

Quote from Witchwood

Concert goers are always a mix of die-hards, holding onto faint hopes of an obscure track being performed, and people who just want a fun night out, enjoying an evening of live music and nostalgia (and maybe a little catching up with friends during the quiet bits of less familiar songs).

At a Genesis concert in 2022, I would expect the latter would make up the vast majority.

This is a good point, well made. I would never say Genesis have an easy time satisfying "all of their fans". But I strongly believe that within the universe of Genesis' songs, they can do better with their tours. Of the group of fans you refer to, their world will not implode if ICD isn't played every night. Their night out would suck if the setlist was all dense prog tracks, but I'd never suggest that. They also likely wouldn't care if the band played Cinema Show one night, and Twilight Alehouse another night.

I maintain that Genesis has huge quality throughout their discography and I'd love to see them indulge, either massive three+ hour shows, or wobbling certain tracks from night to night.

Quote from thewatcher

I maintain that Genesis has huge quality throughout their discography and I'd love to see them indulge, either massive three+ hour shows, or wobbling certain tracks from night to night.

Seeing that Mike seems to be emphatic about not playing more than two hours, the set will, more than likely, be packed with the radio hits.

Quote from Simon1967

I always wonder how many of the fans who bought albums like IT and WCD and were new to Genesis, are still die hard fans or was just a passing music phase in the 80's?

Good question! I don't know, but today's loyal fans who are younger than 50 surely discovered the band through their IT and WCD hit songs. I am one of those fans. I discovered Genesis when "No Son of Mine" was released in 1991. During the coming year I listened to the band's back catalogue and quickly embraced the whole Genesis world. This autumn I will celebrate my 30th anniversary as an all eras Genesis fan.

Quote from AnythingNow

Good question! I don't know, but today's loyal fans who are younger than 50 surely discovered the band through their IT and WCD hit songs. I am one of those fans. I discovered Genesis when "No Son of Mine" was released in 1991. During the coming year I listened to the band's back catalogue and quickly embraced the whole Genesis world. This autumn I will celebrate my 30th anniversary as an all eras Genesis fan.

I am the same as you but didn't start exploring the back (i.e Gabriel era) catalogue until 2015 after seeing Sum Of The Parts. I am now 60.

Quote from AnythingNow

I discovered Genesis when "No Son of Mine" was released in 1991. During the coming year I listened to the band's back catalogue and quickly embraced the whole Genesis world. This autumn I will celebrate my 30th anniversary as an all eras Genesis fan.

Quote from Christian

I became a fan just before WCD came out, simply because I was young at the time. So I moved backwards through their catalogue and found something everywhere on each album.

This intrigues me, as someone who came to appreciate them in the mid-1970s and experienced their progression as each album came out (having done my own early stuff catch-up, essentially the PG years). I'm interested to hear about those having a different experience and going back from near the end of their recording career to discover their earlier material. I reacted and acclimatised to each new release whereas you time-travelled into the past to get to grips with them in a much shorter time. What was that like? Being a new fan around the time of WCD and then discovering the early 70s stuff which bears practically no resemblance - that must've been quite a wild ride. And how much had you already known of the solo stuff before this?

As I said before, I discovered Genesis at 7, in January/February 2000. I'm now 28...

Actually, my mum was a fan herself, as she had bought every album from Trespass to Duke on vinyl, during her teenage/young adult years in the 70's. Funnily, she stopped buying new Genesis albums just before Abacab came out. Interesting, because this album was a drastic change for the band (a lot more than ATTWT to my ears). She saw them live in 1998, because the CAS tour went through our town in Normandy (Caen). She also collected the same albums on EMI cassette tapes, which I listened to on my own.

I think the first three albums I discovered were W&W, Nursery Crime, and ATTWT. At first, I think I didn't notice the singer was different, but I felt something weird about the voice ;). My mum gave me the explanation ! From then, I listened to each album my mum had, but not necessarly in the right order. So, for me, when I think about Genesis, it's about the 1970-1980 period. That's why I consider myself as an "old" fan. The only exception was that she also had Three Sides Lives on tape. That tape was brand new, I remember unboxing it and being quite surprised by the beginning of it, as I expected something mellow/romantic... and hearing a quite edgy "rock'n roll" sound, withTurn It On Again, and then Dodo, and finally Abacab.

I discovered the later albums (Abacab > CAS) when we finally suscribed to an Internet access, 10-12 years ago...

Quote from Backdrifter

This intrigues me, as someone who came to appreciate them in the mid-1970s and experienced their progression as each album came out (having done my own early stuff catch-up, essentially the PG years). I'm interested to hear about those having a different experience and going back from near the end of their recording career to discover their earlier material. I reacted and acclimatised to each new release whereas you time-travelled into the past to get to grips with them in a much shorter time. What was that like? Being a new fan around the time of WCD and then discovering the early 70s stuff which bears practically no resemblance - that must've been quite a wild ride. And how much had you already known of the solo stuff before this?

Looking back, it was strange and exciting discovering Genesis' "old" music. I had WCD and the Shorts and Longs cassettes. So my expectations were somewhat set by those. The Old Medley seemed pretty intense and I was excited to get the older material. I also had the Way We Walk tour video, and remember thinking how cool the Domino bit was with Phil howling about "blood on windows" and "the beautiful river of blood". I think the first older album I got was Wind and Wuthering on cassette. I saw the song title Blood on the Rooftops and thought 'oh man, this is gonna be great', expecting something wild and aggressive. Then the opening guitar notes play and I was thinking 'okay... What the hell is this?'. Of course I love that song now but it's funny how an 11 or 12 year old brain can set stupid expectations.

I believe I pretty quickly acquired NC and maybe Live 73 and even though the sound was so different to the later years, there was always something that made me want more - the haunting melody of Seven Stones, the ostentatious aggression of that live version of Hogweed. I acquired the rest in a jumbled chronological order if memory serves, so I learned not to have expectations when it came to Genesis because you never know what you're going to get!

I had minimal exposure to the solo careers before discovering the band's music. I got into some of that after, but not all.

Quote from Backdrifter

This intrigues me, as someone who came to appreciate them in the mid-1970s and experienced their progression as each album came out (having done my own early stuff catch-up, essentially the PG years). I'm interested to hear about those having a different experience and going back from near the end of their recording career to discover their earlier material. I reacted and acclimatised to each new release whereas you time-travelled into the past to get to grips with them in a much shorter time. What was that like? Being a new fan around the time of WCD and then discovering the early 70s stuff which bears practically no resemblance - that must've been quite a wild ride. And how much had you already known of the solo stuff before this?

The first Genesis release I bought was the No Son of Mine single on cassette. The B-side was Living Forever. I was already aware that Genesis had been around since the 70s, and I was already a fan of early Queen and Led Zep, so they were a band I was always going to explore - it just so happened they had a new album out. I remember I quite liked NSOM, but I loved Living Forever with its floating, perfectly constructed instrumental section. Possibly the first (??) "old" album I got on tape was Three Sides Live. It had everything on it. I liked it a lot more than WCD (which I did like a great deal, apart from the cheesy hits like ICD and HOMH). The pop stuff seemed much more sophisticated and dreamy. I really liked the way the album seemed to move back in time, and ended up with the dramatic old material at the end. After that I think it was Foxtrot and/or Nursery Cryme. I remember thinking how creaky and dusty and strange the music seemed. I guess I was expecting something more like Queen II - but this was different. It sounded older and stranger. It seemed like the real thing.

I guess if you followed them from the 70s on it might have been jarring / upsetting to see them transition into a slick stadium pop/rock act. It just seemed natural to me. I didn't expect older men in the 1990s to be doing long fantasy story songs. It would have seemed weird. But I was very much into that myself as a 13 year old! On balance though I think it was Three Sides Live which made me a lifelong Genesis fan (of all eras). I loved the strangeness and drama of the early 70s stuff, but I equally loved the whimsical sophistication of things like Duchess and Behind the Lines. As I kept on filling in the gaps and getting all the old albums I realised that this was some of the best music I'd ever heard...

As for the solo stuff, I definitely would have been aware of Peter Gabriel from Sledgehammer etc but I don't think I knew much about him. Phil Collins of course was a huge star and I had bought his single I Wish It Would Rain Down, which is one of the reasons I was intrigued by Genesis. I think I had the idea that Genesis would be like the "good" Phil Collins stuff with less of the boring stuff (the sappy ballads)

Quote from raelway siding

I guess if you followed them from the 70s on it might have been jarring / upsetting to see them transition into a slick stadium pop/rock act.

Many fans of my generation felt exactly that, but not me. There were a few fans at school and I was the only one who liked Abacab when it came out. I was also pretty much the only one among rock fans at school who was into punk and new wave so I was obviously already open to other stuff and more receptive to a simpler more terse, spacious Genesis. I was derided by rockers and proggers for liking punk and new wave and ditto my liking for Abacab (while non-rock-fan punk/new wave fans - of which there were very few - similarly derided me for liking rock and prog!).

Your comments on discovering NC and Foxtrot are interesting, likewise 3SL and its 'reverse' structure, easing you as a new fan towards the very different earlier stuff.

None of my friends from that time ever really embraced post-Duke Genesis, yet continued going to their gigs and increasingly moaning about the steady reduction of 'old' stuff in the sets and the volume of new material. I always thought, what the hell did they expect?!

(PS - There's a 'your Genesis story' type thread buried somewhere that these posts really ought to go into...)

I was aware of Genesis from around '82-83, but didn't buy an album until Invisible Touch, when I was 11 years old. After that (most likely spurred on by MTV's near constant playing of Genesis/related videos, the Mama Tour video, and their documentary) I began delving back into the back catalog in a fairly haphazard fashion. I think Three Sides Live, Trick of the Tail and Wind and Wuthering were my next few purchases.

I liked all of what I was hearing so I kept buying more albums, and finally getting into the pre-'75 stuff. Already knowing Three Sides Live and The Mama Tour helped make the older albums a smoother transition for me, but by then I was hooked and I knew I wanted everything they'd put out. By the time We Can't Dance was released I did own all of their albums and Genesis was firmly cemented as my favorite band.

If you started earlier it might be hard to imagine, but I'm sure there are plenty of fans that got hooked by Invisible Touch or We Can't Dance (or So or But Seriously) that appreciate the early era or obscure songs just as much as the later albums, if not more.

As far as the new tour goes, I have no doubt about (and no problem with) the setlist being drawn from mostly later-era songs. I'm sure there will be a few surprises, but my expectations are tempered by reality.

I've been a fan starting back in 1978 at the young age of 11. Thanks to my older brother, his friends, and their older brothers who were still listing to Genesis Live at the time.

I can don't mind if 90-95% of the setlist are the hits, but I am hoping for some of the less-known songs. During the 2007 tour, I thought Duke's Travel, Duke's End, Ripples, and Carpet Crawlers were good surprises.

I did my best not to know the setlist before going into that show.

some good points raised, i asked the question about how many people who bought IT as a 1st album would be at the shows

I was thinking about those jumping on the back of PC solo success, and i still reckon some people came to shows expecting to hear ITAT

Tbh, i hadn't given thought to a younger generation picking up on genesis music for the 1st time and great to hear that then revisit back catalogue

I first heard ATOTT and then went back in time

Has also made me think that if they didn't play the big 80's hits, then would they sell out 3 nights at the O2?...possibly not