Hahah, yes I "deliberately omitted" those songs because you're right and I'm wrong
I am not saying I'm right & you're wrong. However those particular songs support my argument that HIMBG does have some 'bleak' moments if you wish to put it that way. I have no wish to argue with you.
I am not saying I'm right & you're wrong. However those particular songs support my argument that HIMBG does have some 'bleak' moments if you wish to put it that way. I have no wish to argue with you.
What I objected to was your claim that I was deliberately leaving out certain songs, presumably in order to make for a more convincing point.
Bleak is not a word I'd use to describe any of the songs on his first two albums, to be honest. I actually think that Thru These Walls (a song which I've been very fortunate to discuss with Phil) takes a pretty dodgy subject (something more usually associated with Peter Gabriel, who seems strangely drawn to the more off-centre subject matter) and actually manages to make the listener feel some sympathy for the character, locked in his cage, unable to engage with the world as others do and have meaningful relationships. Fair enough, Phil used to lighten the mood before the song with an amusing monologue about perverted behaviour but that was always his knack, to crack a joke before singing something heavy, because he knew it would relax the audience sufficiently to fully absorb the song's meaning.
I love the first two albums to bits but I simply think that there's a maturity to the writing and the compositions on Both Sides that deserves to be acknowledged. And, while certain lyrics on the first two albums were couched in up-tempo, r'n'b style arrangements, Both Sides doesn't make the same plea for accessibility.
I'm not trying to change your mind on this. I'm just clarifying my comments about the album because you called them into question.
Display MoreWhat I objected to was your claim that I was deliberately leaving out certain songs, presumably in order to make for a more convincing point.
Bleak is not a word I'd use to describe any of the songs on his first two albums, to be honest. I actually think that Thru These Walls (a song which I've been very fortunate to discuss with Phil) takes a pretty dodgy subject (something more usually associated with Peter Gabriel, who seems strangely drawn to the more off-centre subject matter) and actually manages to make the listener feel some sympathy for the character, locked in his cage, unable to engage with the world as others do and have meaningful relationships. Fair enough, Phil used to lighten the mood before the song with an amusing monologue about perverted behaviour but that was always his knack, to crack a joke before singing something heavy, because he knew it would relax the audience sufficiently to fully absorb the song's meaning.
I love the first two albums to bits but I simply think that there's a maturity to the writing and the compositions on Both Sides that deserves to be acknowledged. And, while certain lyrics on the first two albums were couched in up-tempo, r'n'b style arrangements, Both Sides doesn't make the same plea for accessibility.
I'm not trying to change your mind on this. I'm just clarifying my comments about the album because you called them into question.
I did say 'in my view'. I completely agree with your comments about Thru These Walls. Regarding Both Sides, I know that I should like it more than I do because I know how personal it is. I do agree that it doesn't try to be accessible. I just can't make myself prefer it to the first few albums. I wasn't aware you knew Phil. Respect!
I did say 'in my view'. I completely agree with your comments about Thru These Walls. Regarding Both Sides, I know that I should like it more than I do because I know how personal it is. I do agree that it doesn't try to be accessible. I just can't make myself prefer it to the first few albums. I wasn't aware you knew Phil. Respect!
Crikey, I don't know him! No, he did an online Q&A some years back and I had the opportunity to ask him about the song. Sorry, I didn't mean to imply I knew the fella. I wish!
I can fully understand some fans not liking Both Sides. It divided the fanbase back in the day and the subsequent revelations about his marriage breakup saw him lose some fans. A watershed album, for sure.
I'm just working on an edit of the album to listen to in the car (because there's no way I'm putting my prized digibook in the car). I'm working with John Potoker's remixes from the 12ers album, taking the bits I like and editing them into the album tracks (I think John Potoker did some excellent work both with Phil's stuff and the Genesis singles from Invisible Touch). In addition, I've found a place on the album for Easy Lover (again, using parts of the John Potoker remix), Separate Lives, I Like The Way (his Michael Jackson-esque B-side) and There's Something Going On (the song he did with Frida. Although it's closer in time to Hello I Must Be Going, the song has a driving, dance feel to it that fits better on No Jacket Required.).
And I agree, No Jacket is great at lifting one's spirits.
That sounds like a good idea!
I can imagine Easy Lover to fit wonderfully onto the album. And There's Something Going On too.
That sounds like a good idea!
I can imagine Easy Lover to fit wonderfully onto the album. And There's Something Going On too.
Yes, they do! Here's the tracklist:
01 Sussudio (extended remix)*
02 Only You Know And I Know (extended remix)*
03 Long Long Way To Go
04 I Don't Wanna Know (extended)
05 One More Night (extended remix)**
06 I Like The Way
07 Easy Lover (extended remix)*
08 Don't Lose My Number (extended remix)**
09 Who Said I Would
10 Doesn't Anybody Stay Together Anymore (extended)
11 There's Something Going On
12 Inside Out (extended)
13 Separate Lives
14 Take Me Home (extended remix)**
15 We Said Hello Goodbye
The Nick Davis remix was used in addition to the mixes by *John Potoker and **Hugh Padgham. Mixes were made using Audacity and mastered on a BOSS 1600 recording studio.
The Nick Davis remix of No Jacket Required is available from all good stockists while 12ers can be found on eBay. The 12 inch remix of Easy Lover is freely available on http://burningtheground.net/
Am I the only person who thinks it's vaguely possible to rank Phil's studio albums from best to worst int the order they were released?
If you start your solo career with a song like In The Air Tonight you are making it bleeping difficult for yourself to go up from there. But that was a single, of course.
I prefer Hello I Must Be Going to Face Value, though. Such a raw, angry album. Do You Know, Do You Care ... such an incredible big wave of sound - created by Phil and Daryl only. A drummer's album.
Do You Know, Do You Care ... such an incredible big wave of sound - created by Phil and Daryl only.
Oh, that is a mighty song! A lot of space in that tune and, wow, those drums! There's some stuff on that album that gets overlooked probably because it either was never played live (as in Do You Know, Do You Care) or it never made it past the first tour.
Oh, that is a mighty song! A lot of space in that tune and, wow, those drums! There's some stuff on that album that gets overlooked probably because it either was never played live (as in Do You Know, Do You Care) or it never made it past the first tour.
I think HIMBG also suffers in popularity because it give off very angry and very lonely vibes. Makes it hard to compete with happier sounding albums.
I prefer Hello I Must Be Going to Face Value, though. Such a raw, angry album. Do You Know, Do You Care ... such an incredible big wave of sound - created by Phil and Daryl only. A drummer's album.
Oh, that is a mighty song! A lot of space in that tune and, wow, those drums! There's some stuff on that album that gets overlooked probably because it either was never played live (as in Do You Know, Do You Care) or it never made it past the first tour.
Count me in as a big fan of that song too. If you're upset/angry about something, "I Don't Care Anymore" and "Do You Know, Do You Care" are GREAT therapy.
I also prefer "Hello I Must Be Going" to "Face Value", but only by a whisker - they're pretty much co-favorites. I even like the off-the-wall songs like "Thru These Walls" and one of the most unusual-sounding pop songs ever, "Like China". How did Daryl come up with that dissonant guitar riff and bizarre solo - I love both! 
Count me in as a big fan of that song too. If you're upset/angry about something, "I Don't Care Anymore" and "Do You Know, Do You Care" are GREAT therapy.
I also prefer "Hello I Must Be Going" to "Face Value", but only by a whisker - they're pretty much co-favorites. I even like the off-the-wall songs like "Thru These Walls" and one of the most unusual-sounding pop songs ever, "Like China". How did Daryl come up with that dissonant guitar riff and bizarre solo - I love both!
I have been talking about the therapy value of those two songs for years, and that's why I prefer them to most of the later ballads. Same for Thru These Walls. Like China is just funny. I love Phil when he sings in an English accent.
I have been talking about the therapy value of those two songs for years, and that's why I prefer them to most of the later ballads. Same for Thru These Walls. Like China is just funny. I love Phil when he sings in an English accent.
YES! His singing in a Cockney accent is another unusual detail of the song I like. "Like China" is nothing but a straight-ahead pop song at its core, but everything about its execution is out-of-the-ordinary. Very cool juxtaposition!
'face value' and 'but seriously' got my votes.
'testify' has no votes so far. i think that any of the outtakes included in the extra cd from the 2016's deluxe edition (high flying angel, crystal clear, hey now sunshine, tv story, it's only loving, tearing and breaking) would have made 'testify' a better album. besides, and funnily, those extra tracks have a warmer sound to my ears, as if they had been recorded for some other album, 'brother bear' or whatever. the sound of 'testify' is too cold and machine-like, and the 2016's remaster couldn't fix it,
Am I the only person who thinks it's vaguely possible to rank Phil's studio albums from best to worst int the order they were released?
I kinda agree with this. As others have mentioned, Face Value is very strong musically, with very wide-ranging material. I like HIMBG almost as much, although I don't find it quite as interesting musically. NJR has some great peaks - Take Me Home is perhaps my favourite of his solo songs - but there are some hokey/maudlin/trite elements starting to show more. I don't really like Both Sides, not because it is more down in mood, but because I find the lyrics really cringeworthy. And it just goes further downhill for me from there.
definitely both side : so many "souvenirs" !
I have chosen Face Value and Hello, I Must Be Going!
I also like Dance Into The Light, but still that's not as strong as his first two. Same with But Seriously.
lately i'm listening a lot to a dusty springfield compilation that i was given as a christmas gift. it includes the song some of your lovin', which phil covered on the album 'going back'. i guess that song may have had several versions, and i don't know which one phil was thinking of, but his cover sounds pretty much the same as dusty's version.
i used to despise 'going back', but thanks to that album i discovered quite a few good songs. i guess that's what cover albums are good for.
It's hard to pick the top album because I have two competing criteria. In terms of the number of tracks I enjoy, NJR wins (love Inside Out, We Said Hello Goodbye, Take Me Home, etc.). In terms of ground-breaking and most "Genesis-like" I go with Face Value.
It's hard to pick the top album because I have two competing criteria. In terms of the number of tracks I enjoy, NJR wins (love Inside Out, We Said Hello Goodbye, Take Me Home, etc.). In terms of ground-breaking and most "Genesis-like" I go with Face Value.
That is why you can pick two albums 
Face Value is still is finest hour for my money, the whole album is good and I don't think he ever came anywhere near to write anything as good as ITAT in his whole career. There aren't then albums I like, just the odd song ever once in a while.I think I could have liked Both Sides but as far as I'm concerned some songs are ruined by the fact he decided to play all the instruments. Songs like Turning back the years or I've forgotten everything deserved another treatment imo. I understand he wanted it to be personal but I truly believe some songs suffered a lot.
