Which CD remastering was the best for each album?

    Hello,


    Newbie, here, digging up a topic I'm sure you're all done and dusted with, but I was just ripping my Genesis CDs to FLAC and realised I had a strange mix of 1994 and 2008 issues, and couldn't quite remember why. A search on the subject brought me here, so I had a question: Originally, I think the thing was that I became stuck with the idea that the 2006 remixes, especially ATOTT and WAW, pushed Hackett to the back. I think I read this, somewhere, and was sure I heard it myself, especially in "Ripples", where Hackett's sinuous guitar lines sounded fainter in the remixes than I remembered. I'm more than happy to be disavowed of that. I don't seem to have the remixes for all of them, and didn't even realise that there was one for the 1974 Live album, which is my all-time favourite (sorry, Seconds Out fans).. Are they really worth getting? And how does one know? On Amazon, they invariably list the 1994 editions, or at least the images they show are.


    Anyway, the basic questions are -- was there actually any skullduggery in the mixing and are they really worth it?


    Thanks,

    If you go back into this thread (and some other older ones), you will see that the 1994 Definitive Edition Remasters are generally well liked for the albums through to the 80s for the most part. Some people like the 2007 box set remixes, though not everyone. There are occasional discrepancies between the remasters and the remixes - some small parts got lost - which may matter to you.


    I have kept both the remasters and remixes in my collection. I like the remasters overall and do listen to them. However the remixes really do open up some albums so that you can hear the parts more distinctly, even without the 5.1 mixes. The Lamb is an example where I can hear the parts more clearly - even Steve, who I find is often buried in the original mix. The additional advantages of the box sets include having all the extra tracks, the interviews, and the 5.1 mixes.

    Great choices, very similar with my preferences. Like you, I like that in some way or another an album preserves the dynamics and a pleasant sound that doesn't tire. I used to pay little attention to this until I found myself discovering the difference between a highly compressed remaster and one that is not.

    I like some of the recent remixes and I appreciate the new personality that some of the albums reveal, especially with the PG era and the live albums. But I still really enjoy the old Virgin and the DRE.

    Quote from Dr. John

    If you go back into this thread (and some other older ones), you will see that the 1994 Definitive Edition Remasters are generally well liked for the albums through to the 80s for the most part. Some people like the 2007 box set remixes, though not everyone. There are occasional discrepancies between the remasters and the remixes - some small parts got lost - which may matter to you.


    I have kept both the remasters and remixes in my collection. I like the remasters overall and do listen to them. However the remixes really do open up some albums so that you can hear the parts more distinctly, even without the 5.1 mixes. The Lamb is an example where I can hear the parts more clearly - even Steve, who I find is often buried in the original mix. The additional advantages of the box sets include having all the extra tracks, the interviews, and the 5.1 mixes.

    Excellent summary of the matter. I've read a lot about it on other forums and so far, I think one finds that many still like these old 1994 releases (although others not so much...) and the old virgins

    For a while I have listened to these old versions and the remixes and I can go from one to the other without problems. Some are nicer than others, some more revealing... but it's good to enjoy the original stereo mixes, even with the limitations that some comment on.

    I know this is a Genesis thread, but in general feel this applies too.


    My good friend(who sadly passed away RIP) Nedflanders123, once said during the 90's period onwards. CD's were being massively remastered as a gimmick to sell more copies. However, he also praised the superior Japanese versions over the European copies and I agree. Japanese cd's were a lot better in the remastering aspect and sound a lot better.


    I would say now, during 2018 onwards, remasters have much improved and it appears artists are now involved in this process for better quality.

    Reading a thread on another forum, someone commented that they heard a noticiable "click" at 17 seconds into the song "Robbery, Assault and Battery" when Phil sings ..."considered" with the Definitive Remastered Edition (1994)

    I have this DE Cd manufaturated in the US (ATCO Records 82668-2)

    and I don't hear this. I have reviewed it several times and using headphones... the click is not there.

    I guess maybe it's a matter of the European editions... has anyone found it on their cd?

    I still wonder this, because I imagine that the remaster is the same for all worldwide releases

    Quote from Noni

    I know this is a Genesis thread, but in general feel this applies too.


    My good friend(who sadly passed away RIP) Nedflanders123, once said during the 90's period onwards. CD's were being massively remastered as a gimmick to sell more copies. However, he also praised the superior Japanese versions over the European copies and I agree. Japanese cd's were a lot better in the remastering aspect and sound a lot better.


    I would say now, during 2018 onwards, remasters have much improved and it appears artists are now involved in this process for better quality.

    It may be so in some particular cases. Although it is known that in those years "some tapes" masters were the same, the japanese engineers made modifications in the equalization during the transfers. It was a common practice until a few years ago. In some cases with remarkable results and other times not so much.

    Rarely did the manufacturers have availability or access to the original master set.

    There are many interesting comparisons between the various pre-1994 versions available on various sites. And also about how many masters there were rolling around there for those years.

    The truth is that many of these Japanese Cds are very good and others are not...

    But this is a subject for another nature of forums.

    Quote from danielbravo

    Reading a thread on another forum, someone commented that they heard a noticiable "click" at 17 seconds into the song "Robbery, Assault and Battery" when Phil sings ..."considered" with the Definitive Remastered Edition (1994)

    I have this DE Cd manufaturated in the US (ATCO Records 82668-2)

    and I don't hear this. I have reviewed it several times and using headphones... the click is not there.

    I guess maybe it's a matter of the European editions... has anyone found it on their cd?

    I still wonder this, because I imagine that the remaster is the same for all worldwide releases

    Yes, I can hear it on my UK issue of DE on the 'con' of 'considered. I think I remember reading something where Nick Davis confirms it too. One of his jobs on the DE series was to go through removing all the clicks and pops and that was one the one that got through. I've got all the other DE's in the series and while I'm aware of the tracking errors I don't recall any other clicks or pops.

    Quote from jaydubya

    Yes, I can hear it on my UK issue of DE on the 'con' of 'considered. I think I remember reading something where Nick Davis confirms it too. One of his jobs on the DE series was to go through removing all the clicks and pops and that was one the one that got through. I've got all the other DE's in the series and while I'm aware of the tracking errors I don't recall any other clicks or pops.

    Oh, thank you. I can't hear it on my copy.

    Hello, it is a matter of exploring and making your own image on the matter. It's the best way if you haven't listened to these remixes in their entirety.

    Currently the Genesis catalog in print is basically these mixes (by default) both on vinyl and cd.

    I like them for albums with Gabriel (especially) and live albums (especially for Seconds Out, Three Sides Live and The Way We Walk) although not much with "Live" which is your favorite.

    With the post 1975 albums things change for my taste, especially because in some of them although I like the new mix, the audio is very compressed and I don't like them as the old Virgin or the DE from 1994.

    I still keep all the remixes from Trespass to Abacab, including the live albums.

    In my experience, each one has its strengths and weaknesses, but it is good to include them in my collection.

    Some are very cheap if you look carefully, particularly used. New ones depends on your wallet, on ebay there is a wide variety of prices if you are looking for them in cd format.

    good luck with your trip

    Not wanting to disrupt the Lady Lies thread I thought it'd be better to come here to pick up a topic that originated there and led to DecomposingMan asking this query about a reference I made to the "hasn't it" at the end of the vocal segment of Lovers Leap (I mistakenly said it was "isn't it"). Along with others here I'd noticed that in the 08 remaster this phrase had moved back a couple of bars into the start of the instrumental section, one of a number of changes I mentioned above. Some of us wondered why such a specific change had been made.

    Abandon all reason

    Well, I compared the two versions, and yes, there is a difference.

    On the 1994 Remaster, we hear "Hasn't it ?" on the fourth beat, and then comes the crotales' hit (a pair of tiny cymbals) sound right on the following first beat.

    On the 2007 Remix, both elements come simultaneously, so the voice has been delayed a little.

    On Seconds Out, Phil says "hasn't it" also before the first beat, like in the original. Same in 1976 and 1982 on the versions I've listened to. So we can assume the phrase was meant to be placed that way, and that the 2007 Remix is wrong.

    I would say I prefer the Boxset remixes. I think they sound great in 5.1 Surround sound, but I acknowledge lots of people may not care about such setups. The CD versions of these do sound a bit...loud, but IMO any compression issues only really exist on a few specific songs, just on the blue box. I have heard original versions and IMO they sounded weak and full of noise. The '94 remasters removed the noise, but IMO also added a kind of 'muddiness' to the overall sound.


    The 2007 remixes added a sense of clarity and depth, where vocals and background elements came thru more clearly. Regrettably some things were lost (like the flutes on IKWIL, or the mixing of the fade-out of Misunderstanding). But there are also several things added that give the songs new perspective; like certain backing vocals or percussion that was not audible before. As for the drums, admittedly it depends on personal preference. The drums in the originals (and 94 DE's) have more...punch, but in the remixes they have more tonal depth and sound less...flat. Examples would be: Undertow, behind the lines or Abacab. IMO another benefit of these remixes is that the soundscape is widened and instruments are given more room to breathe in the mix.


    I mostly listen to these versions on the 2018 half-speed mastered vinyl releases. I've never heard these albums sound better! IMO the half-speed vinyl releases are the best way to listen to these remixes-they're amazingly balanced, with a brightness and depth which I've never heard on other versions.


    Admittedly the choice of version is very subjective, and there's lots of different preferences on which versions people prefer-which is understandable. But every time I take a moment to listen to one of the previous versions-and THEN come back to the remixes (especially on vinyl), I always end up picking these, as it's the version that sounds most enjoyable to my ears.

    Hey people, any thought on the "line-up 12 series" japanese vinyl issues from 1983?


    They feature all albums from Trespass through Abacab (including the two live ones), and were released by Nippon Phonogram to promote the self-titled album in Japan back on those days.


    However, I have no idea how they sound, since I could not find any youtube rips to check them.


    For example, this is the AToTT release from this set:


    https://www.discogs.com/es/release/7462538-Genesis-A-Trick-Of-The-Tail



    And this is the artwork representation of the set, found on the 1984 Nippon Phonogram release of the s/t album:




    Cheers!

    Interesting discussion


    For me the DER versions from the mid-Nineties are fine, but generally I mainly listen to the 2007 Nick Davis mixes, which I also enjoy in 5.1 from time to time.

    I was introduced to the '94 DERs as those were released just a couple years before I first became a fan and collected the albums over my high school years-so they were the ones to be found in stores. At the time I was happy with them cos I didn't know any better. I did feel that SEBTP, Lamb and ATOTT in particular sounded pretty good in that format. Then of course I was listening to the original CD releases of Shapes, IT and WCD-which I thought sounded fine.


    Once the Remixes started coming out, I really got into those-mostly cos of the 5.1 Surround sound mixes. I always did feel that the CD masters of the blue box in particular sounded a bit...loud and the drums sounded buried, but I just accepted it cos there were also several sonic improvements. Besides, this compression issue wasn't a problem with the red and green boxes, as those sounded great. It was interesting hearing the albums in a different light with punchier bass, clearer high range and a wider soundscape. However, over the years I started enjoying those less as my musical tastes evolved, especially when I got into vinyl back in 2022 which kind of opened the door to warm, rich punchy analog sound for me. Initially I got the 2018 vinyl reissues-and I enjoyed those. After a while though, I started noticing how different those mixes (at least from ATOTT onward) sounded from the original mixes. This began to annoy me-and I began a crusade to obtain the original vinyl releases of all these albums. (I actually stuck with the 2018 vinyl reissues of the PG era, cos IMO those albums sound amazing in those versions-which is where the remixes really did some good.) After eventually obtaining original vinyls of all the albums after the PG era, I found that I had missed hearing the original mixes, and realized that these are the best way to hear the albums as the band originally intended them to sound. Sure the remixes have some sonic improvements, but there's something magical about what the band achieved in those original versions, that's missing in the remixes.


    That all said, I do still VERY much enjoy listening to the remixes in 5.1 surround sound-as they sound amazing in that format! IMO the albums were really remixed FOR THAT format, but should've been given separate treatment for the CD masters, rather than just mixed down to 2 channels.

    Quote from rkive

    Out of Topic! :(


    Does anyone know the difference between CD remasterd from 2007 with those released in 2023?

    The Remasters 2007 are the standard now, means every time they put back the catalogue on the market, the albums are those mixes.

    Some special editions, like the Acoustic Sounds SACD / Vinyl reissues clearly state NOT to be the 2007 mixes, but from the original master tapes.