Will Roger Waters ever shut up?

  • Roger Waters left PINK FLOYD decades ago and he is still whining in public about how he was all of Pink Floyd which is completely untrue.

    It is no wonder that the rest of Pink Floyd don't like , ROGER.

    Imagine if Peter Gabriel told Genesis that they can't use the GENESIS' name and still whined for decades about how the other bands members really did almost nothing in the band etc...? And he did it all in a public forum???

    1. I don't listen to Pink Floyd to hear Roger sing and play bass. I listen to Pink Floyd to hear Glimour's voice , guitar , Mason's drumming and Wrights' keyboards.

    That is the Pink Floyd , sound.

    2. Glimour and Wright wrote the music for some of Pink Floyd's greatest songs.

    One Of These Days and Echos. The whole band wrote mostly all the music for , Dark Side.

    Wright wrote the music for the songs Us And Them , Great Gig In The Sky and Any Colour You Like.

    Glimour co wrote Time , Breath and other songs. The only songs that were totally just Waters were Money and Brain Damage. Yes , Roger wrote all the lyrics. A lot of them , I find depressing.

    Then you have , Wish You Were Here. Glimour and Wright wrote the music for all of Shine On and the song Wish You Were Here.

    Roger only sings on 1 song , Welcome To the Machine [his song] and he didn't sing his own song , Have A Cigar. The singer was , Roy Harper.

    Animals , is all Rogers except for the song , Dogs that was co written with , Glimour. What would Animals sounded like with out Glimour's guitar and Wright's keyboards???

    As for The Wall the 3 best songs [in my opinion] Another Brick , Run Like Hell and Comfortable Numb were co written by Glimour.

    Roger can have , The Final Cut. One of PF worst albums.

    Roger Waters , didn't make any of the Pink Floyd films , album covers , light shows and puppets etc...Pink Floyd had many creative people working for them.

    As for using other musicians PINK FLOYD used back up singers and Sax players many times.

    If you need any more proof that Glimour , Wright and Mason were the PINK FLOYD sound listen to the album mostly instrumental album , ENDLESS RIVER.

    ROGER WATERS , is rich and famous. He is on his 5th marriage and he doesn't seem to like mostly any one.

    Roger , there is a saying.

    If every one at a party is an ass.... , then YOU are the ass....||

  • Eh?

    Abandon all reason

  • While that is quite the rant, I actually agree with most of it. I think the Gilmour/Wright axis was more the essence of Pink Floyd than Waters. The Final Cut is pure Waters and I can't abide it, I find it quite thin and colorless, like his solo albums. And even though Animals has 4/5 songs written only by Waters, the contribution of the other band members to the sound is quite clear and it's one of my favorites along with Wish You Were Here.


    Now, I'm not saying they could have made those albums without him. He was probably the most important writer from WYWH on. But without the other members to create the albums, they would have sounded terrible.

  • Of course, all this presumes that being the writer is be-all and end-all. Remember the days when almost no-one wrote all their own material? Even the Beatles. Does that mean no-one who was just a performer counted? I think not.


    Then of course, when people did start to perform their own songs, everyone hung up on who wrote what. Genesis: The absolute epitome of this mindset. Endless threads about who wrote what, who didn't write what, or even whether they did write at all. Never a moments consideration of the blurred lines between writing and arranging. Example: The Moody Blues most famous song (though not their best, IMO) Nights In White Satin. Written by Justin Hayward. Who freely admits the 7 note mellotron motif after the "Beauty I'd Always Missed" line was created by Mike Pinder, the Keyboard player. Mike backs this up. Both credit Hayward with the song, but both agree it transformed it too.


    Take the Police: Sting wrote almost everything (and all the hits) yet what defined the band's sound? Andy's guitar, and perhaps more so, Copeland's drumming. Every Breath You Take - Sting wrote it, but left Andy to finish it with "whatever guitar parts he saw fit". Those parts were an essential part of the song, even Sting says so.


    I'm no expert on Floyd, only have 1 album, the inevitable DSOTM, but I'd agree Gilmour and Wright are the ones who define the sound, by playing and composing, Mason could have been replaced by almost anyone, his style is lazy and unswerving, Phil would have brought much more life to the party. Hell, Mick Tucker from the Sweet would have been a step up. As bass player, Roger is at a disadvantage in being able to influence the sound from a playing point of view. It's not a lead instrument, so he can be good or bad, and if the others are on the ball, it won't matter so much. He seems to have issues, I guess anyone who loses a father in a war will be so afflicted. Do I like him? No, not really. Is he missed on PF records? I'd guess not. Would they have been the success they were if he had not been there? We will never know.

    Ian


    Works with chess - Not with life

  • I am not saying that Waters wasn't very important to PINK FLOYD. He was a key creative force.

    Just as Peter Gabriel was in early , GENESIS.

    I remember when Gabriel left Genesis the music media and some fans said that Genesis was finished.

    Some fans only like the Gabriel era Genesis.

    Then Genesis came out with ATOTT & WAW. Most of the songs and lyrics were written by Banks , Mike and Hackett. While Gabriel was still in the band the whole band wrote the songs. The only album were Gabriel wrote all the lyrics was for , THE LAMB. Peter was a singer , song writer and an incredible front man. Phil Collins , didn't didn't write many songs until much later after Hackett left. However , because [like Gabriel] Collins was the front singer [and was having a huge solo career] some people thought that it was Collins wrote most of the songs.

    It wasn't until MAMA when the whole band stated writing songs again that Phil wrote more songs with the rest of the group.

    Waters , to this day is still doing interviews where he says the rest of FLOYD treaded him like crap and that the rest of then band tried to take credit for more that they did.

    He has even called PF with out him ,

    " a Pink Floyd cover band "

    When I saw PINK FLOYD live with out Waters I didn't miss Waters at all on stage.

    I saw Waters first solo tour with Eric Clapton of lead guitar.

    Clapton is a great guitarist but he couldn't do Glimours guitar style at all.

    The Floyd songs sounded strange and off.

  • I think most if not all here would happily acknowledge that arrangement and song development are very important and that the writing, though obviously key, isn't the entire picture. The fixation we often have on who wrote what (eg within Genesis) is I think just part of the level of fandom you get on a forum like this, and entirely understandable. I personally find it interesting, just as I'm fascinated by how a song is built up and added to in the rehearsal room or studio. I think the latter isn't picked over, or perhaps always known about, in the same way as the writing is but I'm sure few would diminish it.

    Mason could have been replaced by almost anyone, his style is lazy and unswerving, Phil would have brought much more life to the party. Hell, Mick Tucker from the Sweet would have been a step up.

    I've often thought NM is one of rock's most boring drummers. He's good demonstration of how a good musician is distinctive in that he absolutely isn't, unlike the drumners you cited.


    I think I've mentioned this elsewhere - I do like something Waters said when an interviewer was pressing him for pearls of wisdom about the origins of Pink Floyd: "Look, you won't get me to take any of this seriously. We were just 4 young blokes hoping to make money and get shagged."

    Abandon all reason

  • I think the Rogers Waters and Pink Floyd situation is complicated. He definitely made an important contribution artistically with his lyrics and writing the music to many key songs. I also agree that Gilmour and Wright contributed hugely to the music writing and overall arrangements and sound. I agree Mason contributed the least from an artistic perspective, but that said, his relatively plodding and unimaginative playing is very much part of the sound. When you hear Floyd covered by others (including Roger Waters), it can sometimes sound "wrong" in the hands of a more skilled drummer.


    I don't think it is correct to say that a bassist can't contribute as much to a band's sound. People like John Entwistle, Chris Squire, Geddy Lee were all essential components to their respective bands' sounds.


    In terms of the who-treated-who badly aspect, it is impossible to know what really went down. Some people say Waters treated the rest poorly during the latter years of the band. Waters says he's been treated badly. I'm willing to believe there was nastiness both ways and also willing to believe that perhaps more than 50% comes from Waters. Although I haven't followed this issue closely, it seems that Waters was most angry in the earlier years after The Final Cut and then has mellowed more recently. This happens. Lennon was quite sharp and critical of McCartney and The Beatles in general right after they broke up, and then became more balanced about it over time.


    One small correction to the above, Welcome to the Machine is sung by Gilmour, not Waters.

  • I don't think it is correct to say that a bassist can't contribute as much to a band's sound. People like John Entwistle, Chris Squire, Geddy Lee were all essential components to their respective bands' sounds.

    I agree, and immediately thought of Squire and Lee too. McCartney of course, John Giblin springs to mind too, and Rutherford to an extent.

    Abandon all reason

  • I agree Mason contributed the least from an artistic perspective, but that said, his relatively plodding and unimaginative playing is very much part of the sound. When you hear Floyd covered by others (including Roger Waters), it can sometimes sound "wrong" in the hands of a more skilled drummer.

    I agree with what you have said but in Mason's defence if you are handed a song you can only go so far in adding to it. I cant see that Mason would have been allowed much input into the song structures when up against the other 3 big personalities. So he was probably the right man for the job. For example, if we look at Genesis. Whilst Tony may have wrote fading lights you can be sure that the middle section was worked on between the three of them with different rhythms. I honestly cant see Nick saying to Roger can we put this interesting drum part in this song. Even Gilmour is credited with the change of tempo in "Money"

  • I agree with what you have said but in Mason's defence if you are handed a song you can only go so far in adding to it. I cant see that Mason would have been allowed much input into the song structures when up against the other 3 big personalities. So he was probably the right man for the job. For example, if we look at Genesis. Whilst Tony may have wrote fading lights you can be sure that the middle section was worked on between the three of them with different rhythms. I honestly cant see Nick saying to Roger can we put this interesting drum part in this song. Even Gilmour is credited with the change of tempo in "Money"

    I think there's something in this, though I'm not sure how interesting NM could ever have been even if there was scope for that to happen. But yes, given that so many of PF's songs were at a quite plodding walking-pace tempo it does indeed beg the question of just how much he could have done with them even if he tried or was allowed to.

    Abandon all reason

  • It's an interesting thought experiment; what would Pink Floyd songs be like if a powerhouse drummer was behind the band? I'm not sure to be honest, but I suspect they'd be worse off. I do think Mason's style contributed to the band's sound, in allowing the songs to breathe. For example, I don't think Shine on You Crazy Diamond needs more drums or aggressive drums, I think there's a skill in not hitting a drum at the right moment if that makes sense. Conversely he could drive them when needed, like on One Of These Days or Dogs. He had that long solo contribution to Ummagumma too if anyone wants to hear what Nick Mason drumming at what I suspect was the limits of his ability sounds like.


    Sure, they could have had a "better" drummer but I think it would have been a different band then.

  • It's a fair point that Mason was probably introduced to semi-finished songs and given instruction about how the tempo/feel should be. So he may have been limited in what he could add. Hard to know how much of his own ideas could be introduced into the arrangements.

  • All 4 contribute to the Floyd sound no doubt, but RW had a lot of importance in the albums, because he composed most of the songs.


    who sings :


    THE DARK SIDE OF THE MOON (1973)

    1. Speak to Me - NONE (Instrumental)

    2. Breathe (In the Air) - Dave Gilmour

    3. On The Run - NONE (Instrumental)

    4. Time - Dave Gilmour & Rick Wright

    4b. Breathe Reprise - Dave Gilmour

    5. The Great Gig in the Sky - Clare Torry

    6. Money - Dave Gilmour

    7. Us and Them - Roger Waters, Dave Gilmour & Rick Wright

    8. Any Colour You Like - NONE (Instrumental)

    9. Brain Damage - Roger Waters

    10. Eclipse - Roger Waters


    WISH YOU WERE HERE (1975)

    1. Shine On You Crazy Diamond (Pts. 1-5) - Roger Waters

    2. Welcome to the Machine - Roger Waters & Dave Gilmour

    3. Have a Cigar - Roy Harper

    4. Wish You Were Here - Dave Gilmour

    5. Shine On You Crazy Diamond (Pts. 6-9) - Roger Waters


    ANIMALS (1977)

    1. Pigs on the Wing (Pt. 1) - Roger Waters

    2. Dogs - Dave Gilmour & Roger Waters

    3. Pigs (Three Different Ones) - Roger Waters

    4. Sheep - Roger Waters

    5. Pigs on the Wing (Pt. 2) - Roger Waters


    THE WALL (1979)

    1. In The Flesh? - Roger Waters

    2. The Thin Ice - Dave Gilmour & Roger Waters

    3. Another Brick in the Wall (Pt. 1) - Roger Waters

    4. The Happiest Days of Our Lives - Roger Waters

    5. Another Brick in the Wall (Pt. 2) - Roger Waters, Dave Gilmour, & kids from Islington Green School, London

    6. Mother - Roger Waters & Dave Gilmour

    7. Goodbye Blue Sky - Dave Gilmour & Roger Waters

    8. Empty Spaces - Roger Waters

    9. Young Lust - Dave Gilmour

    10. One of My Turns - Roger Waters

    11. Don't Leave Me Now - Roger Waters

    12. Another Brick in the Wall (Pt. 3) - Roger Waters

    13. Goodbye Cruel World - Roger Waters

    14. Hey You - Dave Gilmour & Roger Waters

    15. Is There Anybody Out There? - Roger Waters

    16. Nobody Home - Roger Waters

    17. Vera - Roger Waters

    18. Bring the Boys Back Home - Roger Waters

    19. Comfortably Numb - Roger Waters & Dave Gilmour

    20. The Show Must Go On - Dave Gilmour

    21. In The Flesh - Roger Waters

    22. Run Like Hell - Roger Waters & Dave Gilmour

    23. Waiting For The Worms - Dave Gilmour & Roger Waters

    24. Stop - Roger Waters

    25. The Trial - Roger Waters

    26. Outside the Wall - Roger Waters


    THE FINAL CUT (1983)

    1. The Post-War Dream - Roger Waters

    2. Your Possible Pasts - Roger Waters

    3. One of the Few - Roger Waters

    4. The Hero's Return - Roger Waters

    5. The Gunner's Dream - Roger Waters

    6. Paranoid Eyes - Roger Waters

    7. Get Your Filthy Hands Off My Desert - Roger Waters

    8. The Fletcher Memorial Home - Roger Waters

    9. Southampton Dock - Roger Waters

    10. The Final Cut - Roger Waters

    11. Not Now John - Dave Gilmour & Roger Waters

    12. Two Suns in the Sunset - Roger Waters

  • Who would you want to have a drink with? For me it's always been Gilmour. I bought Us + Them and Live at Pompeii on blu ray at the same time, I sold Us +Them after one play but Pompeii is always on rotate. Dave is the soul of PF, the sound, the circular light show, the fun that he and his band have. Roger should let his songs do the talking.


    The Wall was the last studio album I bought, and the concerts at Earl's Court were the last time I saw any of them live. I thought the previous albums were good band collaborations, I play Animals & Wish You Were Here and some of the other early stuff from time to time but Dark Side is always on rotate.


    Mike Rutherford always comments that Genesis don't have an iconic album like Dark Side or The Wall, but I think Trick is theirs.

  • Who would you want to have a drink with?

    Mason.


    Let me qualify that - I wouldn't actually want to have a drink with anyone from any band but if the question was who from PF would I least object to as a drinking buddy for an evening then yes NM.


    But who knows - relaxing in a pleasant inn with a few pints of foaming nut-brown ale and a ploughman's in him, after a good run on the fruit machine and a good score in the pub quiz, Roger might be a riot.


    Quote

    Rutherford always comments that Genesis don't have an iconic album like Dark Side or The Wall, but I think Trick is theirs.

    I'd guess that for most here (not me though) it'd be that. For others in the same constituency, W&W. Some would consider it IT. In my view it's The Lamb.

    Abandon all reason

    Edited once, last by Backdrifter ().

  • Mike Rutherford always comments that Genesis don't have an iconic album like Dark Side or The Wall, but I think Trick is theirs.

    I think this is one of the great things about Genesis. Depending on who you're talking to, and even what sort of mood they're in, you could get any of a few different answers.


    Selling England

    Trick

    Invisible Touch


    Any of those could be seen as their iconic album by different fans. And then Mike and Tony talk about Abacab being critical to their growth, and The Lamb is iconic in its way too.


    As I said, I think that's one of the really interesting things about Genesis. The didn't have a single iconic album, because they didn't have a single iconic sound. They changed over time; dare I say ... they progressed.


    Don't get me wrong; I love me some Floyd. Meddle, Animals, The Wall, and Division Bell are all in pretty regular rotation. But for the life of me, I can't remember what order any of the pre-Wall albums came out. I'm not saying you can swap songs out from one album, and they'd fit nicely on any other. But there is a similarity there, that could allow What Do You Want From Me to replace Have a Cigar. I don't think you can say the same about No Son of Mine replacing Squonk.

  • Thought I'd bump this back up after reading an amusing thing. Roger Waters was reportedly miffed when a Toronto gig of his went unmentioned by local media. He then got even more annoyed when he learned that a concurrent gig by The Weeknd had drawn all the attention. He allegedly said he had no idea who or what The Weeknd was, and he was sick of hearing about unknowns such as Drake, and "don't these people realise I'm far, far, far more important?"


    😂

    Abandon all reason

  • I've seen Roger waters Live seven times, the last one was "This is not a Drill" in Montreal last month and was excellent.

    But if I recall correctly, the last concert where there was no politics involved in the production, was for the "in The Flesh" tour 2000. Although Roger and his band, played "Dogs" that as with all of the Animals album is loaded with political messages.


    Roger attacks most of the world leaders, for him none of them are clean cut or free of sin. The worst is Trump of course but, it gets tiresome and overly repetitive to see his annoying political views in full display when all we as fans want to see and hear is good music, or otherwise we would go to political rallies instead.