Which album features the last shades of the "fantasy" atmosphere they created during the 70's?

"Anything She Does" deals with fantasy, but a different type of fantasy

"Silver Rainbow" has a fantasy feel about it

I think of Wind and Wuthering and the departure of Hackett as the turning point; prior to that a certain proggy/romantic/pastoral/long form music/less straightforward lyricism dominated, with shorter passages and songs which showcased a more streamlined style. (The Lamb being the odd one out in terms of romanticism and long form). After that, in various patterns, it was more the other way around, with perhaps Duke being the one which harked back a little more than than the others. But elements of both are present from beginning to end. I see Fading Lights as fitting easily into almost anywhere in the Genesis canon as an example. As Al Murray says, Genesis were the progressive band who dared to progress. I prefer the earlier albums but that is probably because they were the soundtrack to my teens and I'm glad they didn't end up parodying themselves into the 80s and 90s. I can find something to really get my teeth into in any of their albums.

For me that added layer of atmosphere left when Steve Hackett left the band. I am the same as you in that it's that magical 'something' that drew me to the band and kept me a lifelong fan. Steve's very individual style and unique sound really helped to bring that out. Admittedly it wasn't just Steve though, as this period was also when most fans would view Genesis as "truly prog" and it was also when Tony used softer keyboard sounds, but if you compare the guitar playing on TOTT through to Seconds Out with the period from Duke to Three Sides, the difference is huge. Related to this and focusing on the live sound, Daryl is a fantastic guitarist and probably more technically proficient but Steve could create and hold notes which you felt deep inside whereas Daryl would put more in (Firth of Fifth being the classic example) and do it with less, or colder, effects.

Another example: try to imagine what ATTWT would have sounded like with Steve. Down and Out, Ballad of Big, Burning Rope, Deep in The Motherlode, The Lady Lies; all songs which could have easily had more of a W&W feel if Steve had a hand in those recording sessions.

To to my ears, if you ignore the obvious fact that the band consciously moved (progressed) in a slightly different direction from 1978 onwards, which often meant songs were more immediate than about telling stories, Steve's departure made the biggest difference.

Maybe I don't...quite get what you're getting at, but I think I hear that sound in tracks like Silver Rainbow, Tonight, Tonight, Tonight, and Fading Lights. On the Shoreline is another (non-album, admittedly) that I think fits squarely into the fantasy/obtuse realm lyrically.

I think the sounds they used changed as technology changed (digital synths and electronic drums) which might alter the perception of the songs but I think the spirit of Genesis presenting a degree of fantasy both lyrically and (especially) musically was present throughout their entire history.

I think the ratios changed, and it's tough to argue that Wind and Wuthering was the last REALLY pastoral album they made, but even that one was a bit of an outlier when you look at what came before and after.

Quote from Eclipse

I really like all eras of the band, but I am more of a fan of their more "fairly-tale"-like pastoral sound which was so strong in their 70's albums.

While I consider an album like Invisible Touch amazing due to its clever compositions, for example, I miss that atmosphere but then I listen to post-70's Genesis when I'm in the mood for something different than the 70's era. They were amazing throughout the many styles they tried.

I think exactly the same...

To me, it goes from Trespass to Duke (included). Or from Stagnation to Duchess to illustrate this on a song basis. I started with W&W when I was a child, so I'm quite attached to this "dreamy" sound.

After, from Abacab onwards, to my ears it changes. But if we have in mind the history of the band, at that time, it changed for them too. Abacab was meant to show it. Their writing process evolved drastically from that point. They were becoming "real adults" in their 30's. Tony Banks explained that was why they couldn't go on with their older way of doing/thinking about things... Even if some elements were still there from time to time.

Quote from WinstonWolf

Maybe I don't...quite get what you're getting at, but I think I hear that sound in tracks like Silver Rainbow, Tonight, Tonight, Tonight, and Fading Lights. On the Shoreline is another (non-album, admittedly) that I think fits squarely into the fantasy/obtuse realm lyrically.

I think the sounds they used changed as technology changed (digital synths and electronic drums) which might alter the perception of the songs but I think the spirit of Genesis presenting a degree of fantasy both lyrically and (especially) musically was present throughout their entire history.

I think the ratios changed, and it's tough to argue that Wind and Wuthering was the last REALLY pastoral album they made, but even that one was a bit of an outlier when you look at what came before and after.

Couldn't have said it better, I think this is spot-on.

Quote from Duke of Earl of Mar

Banks explained that was why they couldn't go on with their older way of doing/thinking about things... Even if some elements were still there from time to time.

Both points absolutely right. They are who they are, which means that whatever changes have occurred - their being older, equipment and techniques developing, the other two band members leaving - the Genesis DNA is still there and it always shows, just in different ways.

I never think of aspects of their sound as "fantasy", which usually denotes an approach I tend to dislike - for me, too many literary and musical crimes of whimsy and tedium have been committed in the name of that F-word. But I get it has a certain kind of meaning for many.

I would argue that both the title track & Dodo/Lurker from Abacab continue the 'fantasy' theme if that's what you wish to call it.

Quote from FeelItComing

I would argue that both the title track & Dodo/Lurker from Abacab continue the 'fantasy' theme if that's what you wish to call it.

Yes, but by "fantasy" I don't mean the subject of a song (or the vague theme for an album). To me (and from what I've understood, to Eclipse also), it's more about the music itself, the atmosphere it carries (from ethereal, like the acoustic part of Cinema Show, Blood On The Rooftops, Snowbound, or Heathaze... to bombastic epic things like Watcher, Apocalypse, Eleventh Earl of Mar, Duke's Travels...). All those things that generated images or dreams in my head when I was younger... When you're young you associate things in your head (sounds, pictures...), even if it doesn't make any sense. You're making up stories (I was...).

I discovered Abacab later, so it's maybe because my brain had matured at that time that the music didn't have the same power of bringing images into my head...

It's probably why, to this day, I'm so attached to this 1970-1980 period.

I think the fantasy atmosphere was still prevalent on ATTWT albeit a little watered-down without Hackett's guitar and any instrumentals.

It was Duke, for me, where this began to change with Heathaze, Open Door and Evidence of Autumn the only ones sounding ATTWT-y. The rest (which I love) is more sunny, breezy and American rather than pastoral and English.

I too am intrigued what ATTWT would have sounded like with Steve.

Quote from Duke of Earl of Mar

Yes, but by "fantasy" I don't mean the subject of a song (or the vague theme for an album). To me (and from what I've understood, to Eclipse also), it's more about the music itself, the atmosphere it carries (from ethereal, like the acoustic part of Cinema Show, Blood On The Rooftops, Snowbound, or Heathaze... to bombastic epic things like Watcher, Apocalypse, Eleventh Earl of Mar, Duke's Travels...). All those things that generated images or dreams in my head when I was younger... When you're young you associate things in your head (sounds, pictures...), even if it doesn't make any sense. You're making up stories (I was...).

I discovered Abacab later, so it's maybe because my brain had matured at that time that the music didn't have the same power of bringing images into my head...

It's probably why, to this day, I'm so attached to this 1970-1980 period.

Everyone's different. Everything you've described there I think about Dodo/Lurker. For that matter I could apply it to Home/Second Home By The Sea.

Quote from Eclipse

I think Abacab still features this sound (Me and Sarah Jane, Dodo, Like it or not, even a small bit in No Reply at All where Phil delivers some emotional vocals), and Three Sides Live maintain that atmosphere especially in that fourth live side.

However, begining from the s/t album, the mood seems to change drastically and that fantasy feeling disappears, even in the proggier moments such as Home by the Sea, Domino, etc.

Me And Sarah Jane was the song that came to mind when I read your question. It's also one of the last "pre-written" tracks brought into the album sessions before Tony, Mike & Phil switched full-on to in-studio jams & collaborations as their preferred avenue for songwriting. Perhaps the pastoral/fantasy element came more naturally from a more single-minded compositional approach?

Duke for me, although new elements are already creeping in, but after that album their approach changed radically, they became musically less British perhaps, with more backbeat and later drum- machine driven songs and I think some level of ''enchantment'' was sacrificed in favor of a more energetic approach. Obviously, I speak of albums in general, they couldn't completely relinquish what they were and some vestiges of the past, some nuances did pop up in certain songs, just glimpses though.

Evidence of Autumn is perhaps a prophetic title, as it is the end of that sort of song from them.

Certainly W&W was the last album that consistently evoked a sense of fantasy and perhaps also pastoral England. ATTW3 has some aspects of this in Snowbound, Burning Rope, and a few other sections. Evidence of Autumn is perhaps the last example of this sound, and I think they left it off the album because it had such a throwback sound.

After that, as noted above, the instrumentation changed such that they didn't achieve this sound even in the quieter passages. There was no more mellotron, almost no 12-strings (and used very differently), and Tony's synth sounds were very of the time. That said, one could imagine passages from later songs that could have sounded "fantasy" with different instrumentation. The verse section of Fading Lights is a good example - imagine it with arpeggiated 12-strings and mellotron/Hammond organ handling the chords

Quote from Dr. John

That said, one could imagine passages from later songs that could have sounded "fantasy" with different instrumentation. The verse section of Fading Lights is a good example - imagine it with arpeggiated 12-strings and mellotron/Hammond organ handling the chords

Ooooh I don't know. I'm projecting the vocal over that arrangement in my head and not liking it. Also, the lyric about looking back over a life doesn't lend itself to a 'fantasy' feel. Got any better ones?!

Quote from Backdrifter

Ooooh I don't know. I'm projecting the vocal over that arrangement in my head and not liking it. Also, the lyric about looking back over a life doesn't lend itself to a 'fantasy' feel. Got any better ones?!

First part of Domino.

Imagine the guitar/synth riff with arpeggiated 12 strings, the synthy lead line played with the Pro-soloist,

and then the "Can't you see what you are doing to me " part with big organ chord, punctuated with Mellotron brass sound...

Sounds like a job for an AI.

Quote from Schrottrocker

Sounds like a job for an AI

My first thought too. We've had PC singing CAS tracks, Freddie Mercury singing Genesis songs, so indeed why not later trio stuff with 70s instrumentation. It'd be interesting to see if it sounds as bad as I imagine it would

Quote from Backdrifter

Ooooh I don't know. I'm projecting the vocal over that arrangement in my head and not liking it. Also, the lyric about looking back over a life doesn't lend itself to a 'fantasy' feel. Got any better ones?!

OK fair. It might not have been the perfect marriage musically. But I do think the reflective stance on life is echoed in previous songs - e.g., Afterglow, Ripples. So lyrically I think it could fit.