Of course absolutely fair enough that that's your opinion. Having seen SH's Genesis shows 2 or 3 times I totally disagree. Some of his band's versions have made me cringe.
I see you don't post on the listening thread! 
PHIL COLLINS: Genesis won’t exist beyond 2021
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Another way to look at it is he's riding the coattails of the classic era of Genesis music. At this point it's fair to ask how many people would show up for Hackett shows if he was just doing his solo material in concert. I admit I'm a bit grumpy on the subject after Nad made that a**hole comment a couple of weeks back about which show people should choose to attend (Genesis or Hackett).
I didn't think Nad's comment was bad, just a comment about which to choose. Some people probably saw both.
I'd rather Steve H did his solo material at gigs, or at least less Genesis.
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I see you don't post on the listening thread!
Damn right I don’t.
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I saw Steve’s Band twice the week I saw Genesis twice, was a very busy week for sure and I really enjoyed both for different reasons. Steve’s show at Scunthorpe Baths Hall was incredibly loud upstairs so much so that I couldn’t stand it and had to blag an alternative seat which was in the stalls and a lot more comfortable for my old ears!!. I also went to see him the next night at Bradford and was sat upstairs in the Gods and the view was pretty abysmal as you were sideways on. If I was a selfish sort I could of lent over the rail to get a view of the show but would have inevitably ran the risk of offending the guy sat next to me by thus completely obscuring his also limited view ( so I once again moved seats to one I noticed was empty by scanning the stalls ) a risk I know which paid off as it was empty both before and after the interval!. Steve’s band are terrific especially the chap who plays the flute/keys and all manner of other stuff. I agree they are probably better than Genesis at playing the songs from the Hackett Era and I did like the sprinkling of Steve’s own stuff prior to the interval. Genesis had a better light show and sound quality but couldn’t for me match the ability of Hacketts band for musicianship. Both great acts in their own way but the intimacy of the Hackett shows and earlier Genesis songs had the edge for me personally. Genesis themselves I feel were worth the entrance fee but it was a massive price difference from £200 Genesis to £40 Hackett which in these times is a terrific bargain for a great nights entertainment. I do think it would be great for Steve to be invited onstage one more time by Genesis to perform the solo from Firth of Fifth that would be something else to see and probably very emotional if it ever came to pass. The touring bands I feel offer something different to the fans to view which makes the shows complementary to one another.
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I'm surprised they're doing as many dates as they are tbh.
In the 2007 documentary Phil says "you can do more than 20 shows if you want but you'll be doing them without a singer"...
But in the recent documentary, Tony or Mike says something like "no doubt our manager is working on other dates".
From accounts posted here, Phil's voice appears to be improving with the tour. And I dare say that has bolstered his confidence.
But I can't see them doing much more if any. I really don't think Phil is in a good way in himself. I think he's doing this tour primarily for his son.
Quite what Phil will do with himself after this is anyones guess. I don't think it's going to be healthy for him.
A shame they didn't use lockdown to write just one new song... a swan-song. Floyd did Louder Than Words and whilst it didn't change the world, it didn't hurt either.
Enjoy it while it lasts, the show was great and I'm still debating going to London to see them again!
Tony Smith the manager had booked in 2008 a tour of Australia, South America and Hong Kong I think it was, Darryl and Chester had it all booked up, apparently Tony Smith was the only one who didn't know that Phil had said No to doing it.
Obviously after 2007 USA tour, Phil had all his issues develop but he could have sang, even if he decided not to drum.
The worse thing historically for Phil was just stopping and giving up working, even if he couldn't play drums, he had everything else going for him, writing, producing and singing wise.
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Obviously after 2007 USA tour, Phil had all his issues develop but he could have sang, even if he decided not to drum.
That's easy to say now; at the time, he didn't know it wasn't something that could be solved through treatment. He might've thought he could try that and if it worked, go back on tour in a year or two. I doubt he'd have immediately abandoned live drumming without at least trying a cure.
Where did you hear about the Aus/HK etc tour?
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That's easy to say now; at the time, he didn't know it wasn't something that could be solved through treatment. He might've thought he could try that and if it worked, go back on tour in a year or two. I doubt he'd have immediately abandoned live drumming without at least trying a cure.
Where did you hear about the Aus/HK etc tour?
The 2008 tour is well documented in interviews with Darryl & Chester.
They were told to hold the dates & it was actually Darryl who told Tony Smith, that Phil had said he wasn't doing it.
Tony went off & came back and said, yup, we're not doing it.
I think re Phils initial diagnosis & surgery, what they assumed was the cause of his loss of feeling in his hand wasn't what they did surgery on, hence he had multiple different surgeries and that clearly didn't help him sadly, but did highlight he had various issues to deal with.
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Anybody have a link to the Sylvan interview in question?
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Anybody have a link to the Sylvan interview in question?
It wasn't an interview. I believe it's a Tweet being referred to. Possibly this one: https://twitter.com/SylvanOffi…tatus/1439943879302713345.
I personally think more was read into it than he intended but as you can see he then clarified the comment the day after.
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I think there is nothing wrong with Steve focusing a lot on Genesis material. This is an important part of his musical history and clearly the part that connects with the largest fan base. Many other artists do this kind of thing. His band does a decent job covering the other parts, but in the end it still feels like a Genesis cover band featuring Steve Hackett and is quite different from experiencing Tony, Mike, and Phil performing something from the same era (acknowledging that Darryl has a very different approach to Steve's parts).
I also have no beef about Ray playing lots of Genesis material. The world is big enough that anyone who wants to cover Genesis can go ahead.
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The ex - band member keeping Genesis alive is Steve Hackett. To be honest, his band is much better on the tracks than Genesis with Phil, Mike and Tony. I hate to say it, but IMHO is true.
That may be the case, technically. But there are quite a few Genesis tribute bands, and one of them is led by former member Steve Hackett. I saw a Genesis Revisited show by Hackett when he was in Stockholm a few years ago and it was a great experience, and I think I've managed to buy all live CDs he as issued during recent years. However, I definitely prefer the contemporary Genesis playing songs from their own past. In plain text Genesis in 2021 has three musicians who have been with the group for more than 50 years plus Daryl (40+ years). This means that when Genesis perform their songs there is the personal and emotional bond to these songs, that can't be achieved by putting together a tribute band. There's certainly nothing wrong when a solo artist performs songs from his former band, but it will always be a solo concert with things being a lot different than the mother band.
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That may be the case, technically. But there are quite a few Genesis tribute bands, and one of them is led by former member Steve Hackett. I saw a Genesis Revisited show by Hackett when he was in Stockholm a few years ago and it was a great experience, and I think I've managed to buy all live CDs he as issued during recent years. However, I definitely prefer the contemporary Genesis playing songs from their own past. In plain text Genesis in 2021 has three musicians who have been with the group for more than 50 years plus Daryl (40+ years). This means that when Genesis perform their songs there is the personal and emotional bond to these songs, that can't be achieved by putting together a tribute band. There's certainly nothing wrong when a solo artist performs songs from his former band, but it will always be a solo concert with things being a lot different than the mother band.
I agree, this isn't a tribute band, this is Genesis!
That's also why Ray Wilson failed, Tony was too stubborn back then, he told Darryl and Chester they were not wanted (Darryl was on tour with Phil at time of rehearsals anyhow) but I think he and Mike should have been more patient, waited to get Ray on board and write together and use a different name., because, it wasn't Genesis.
Tony at least admits to it now, he got it wrong.
It's a little sad, when Darryl says, he never felt like part of the band. Fans consider he and Chester a huge part of the group, even if they are not on the albums.
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. I admit I'm a bit grumpy on the subject after Nad made that a**hole comment a couple of weeks back about which show people should choose to attend (Genesis or Hackett).
I understand that completely, particularly coming from such a great singer and overachiever with such a great artistic career under his belt. That said, no matter how obnoxious the remark was, I'd probably opt for Steve's show these days.
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I agree, this isn't a tribute band, this is Genesis!
That's also why Ray Wilson failed, Tony was too stubborn back then, he told Darryl and Chester they were not wanted (Darryl was on tour with Phil at time of rehearsals anyhow) but I think he and Mike should have been more patient, waited to get Ray on board and write together and use a different name., because, it wasn't Genesis.
Tony at least admits to it now, he got it wrong.
It's a little sad, when Darryl says, he never felt like part of the band. Fans consider he and Chester a huge part of the group, even if they are not on the albums.
It absolutely was Genesis, one that many probably don't like and don't feel inclined to acknowledge as Genesis but it was.
I recall CT saying it was Rutherford who rather bluntly told him his services weren't required and who's said he never felt part of the band. I'm sure their exclusion for CAS was agreed by both Banks and Rutherford even if it was MR who dropped the bombshell. I can completely understand their thinking and if they've since said they were wrong I think they're being too self-critical about a very logical decision at the time.
I agree they should have given the line-up more time and allowed RW to settle in and flex his muscles a bit more. In CAS you can hear the seeds of a potentially stripped-back, darker Genesis that could've been very interesting but Genesis it would have assuredly been.
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Personally I would like Genesis to close the doors...
I would never wish for a musician to stop touring or recording because time has caught up to them and they no longer perform up to a certain standard.
Everyone's entitled to make a living, doing what they enjoy doing, including 70-year-old musicians.
Of course the common retort is, "They're ruining their legacy!"
I never know what that means to the average fan.
Does that mean they suddenly can't enjoy the old albums anymore? Are their fond memories of seeing the band perform in the past being erased?
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What was interesting From Darryl, he said that if Genesis had of toured again after the 2007 Tour, then he would have expected they would have had to record a new album, because they couldn't do another show like that again with no new material and it's probably why it didn't happen, along with Phil's issues, Phil was set against it at that point to record an album and tour anyhow.
I still feel, they should have done one more album around 95 / 96 and called it a day.
How much Genesis stuff did Phil do after he left, lots! Songbooks and documentaries and other stuff all around early 2000 era. **
Correction** Phil was singing Genesis songs even on TV specials in 1998, so again another weird way to leave the band and yet carrying on signing the songs etc.
I think Phil made a mistake sadly to not give it another album.
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What was interesting From Darryl, he said that if Genesis had of toured again after the 2007 Tour, then he would have expected they would have had to record a new album, because they couldn't do another show like that again with no new material and it's probably why it didn't happen, along with Phil's issues, Phil was set against it at that point to record an album and tour anyhow.
I still feel, they should have done one more album around 95 / 96 and called it a day.
How much Genesis stuff did Phil do after he left, lots! Songbooks and documentaries and other stuff all around early 2000 era.
I’m still really puzzled why he felt like he had to “leave Genesis”. He was so adamant about quitting between 1994-1997. I mean he didn’t officially announce until 1996 but he checked out after writing Both Sides and that Cowdry Ruins benefit concert. Maybe he felt it wouldn’t be fair to keep Tony and Mike from trying to keep Genesis going since they were all still pretty young. It’s just that by 1998 he was back in the picture talking about the box sets and by 1999 and each year after it seemed like he kind of missed them. I’m not saying that Tony and Mike shouldn’t have tried with a new singer but I’m not sure they were really committed to that challenge and what their realistic expectations were as to how successful it could be.
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Ok, our favourite touring guitarists name is Daryl (just one R) Stuermer.
Archive One was first started in 1995, they didn't do anything with it until June 1998 in terms of a release.
Archive Two came out in September 2000.
Phil had left Genesis by 1995, but the band didn't make an announcement until March 1996.
Phil has remarked that at the gig at Cowdray Ruins in 1993, he felt he was playing a part. He had little to no feeling performing those songs. That was the final thing in his head about leaving, obviously his personal life was derailing, that wouldn't become public until 1994. Phil was the target of the tabloid press, who where very intrusive and invasive. They would ring up Phil's mum / sister etc and hassle them.
The TIOA 2007 was meant to continue into 2008, the management had placed the stage into storage for this purpose. They had also contracted companies like transport / trucking etc.
So there you go...
TGA
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According to Daryl, Phil told him in 1994 that he had left Genesis.
The full interview from 2007 is below. its a good read, especially on his thoughts re CAS.
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Ok, our favourite touring guitarists name is Daryl (just one R) Stuermer.
Archive One was first started in 1995, they didn't do anything with it until June 1998 in terms of a release.
Archive Two came out in September 2000.
Phil had left Genesis by 1995, but the band didn't make an announcement until March 1996.
Phil has remarked that at the gig at Cowdray Ruins in 1993, he felt he was playing a part. He had little to no feeling performing those songs. That was the final thing in his head about leaving, obviously his personal life was derailing, that wouldn't become public until 1994. Phil was the target of the tabloid press, who where very intrusive and invasive. They would ring up Phil's mum / sister etc and hassle them.
The TIOA 2007 was meant to continue into 2008, the management had placed the stage into storage for this purpose. They had also contracted companies like transport / trucking etc.
So there you go...
TGA
I’m quite familiar with the timeline, but thanks for the recap. I guess I still am disappointed that he left. I’ve always gone back and forth as to whether I wished they would have continued or not. At the time, I was enthusiastic and supportive of them moving on with Calling All Stations but ultimately it wasn’t ever going to be as successful as the trio. If they would have stuck with it for another record and tried to build it, eventually there would have always public pressure to have Phil return. I think they probably knew that too in the back of their minds.
