Wind & Wuthering

  • Lots of great stuff on here and it highlights what a loss Hackett was to be. I think the whole album holds together well without being too samey. In the CD era, Inside and Out would have been included, though Pigeons and Match of the Day probably best left as pleasant B-sides. If they could have continued to produce albums of this quality, a good balance of long and shorter songs with enough to reward repeated listenings, I'd have been happier. But I don't blame them for the changes that were to come and they did still produce some great stuff. But Wind is the last album where I really liked every track- even Your Own Special Way, despite the bland solo.

  • Lots of great stuff on here and it highlights what a loss Hackett was to be. I think the whole album holds together well without being too samey. In the CD era, Inside and Out would have been included, though Pigeons and Match of the Day probably best left as pleasant B-sides. If they could have continued to produce albums of this quality, a good balance of long and shorter songs with enough to reward repeated listenings, I'd have been happier. But I don't blame them for the changes that were to come and they did still produce some great stuff. But Wind is the last album where I really liked every track- even Your Own Special Way, despite the bland solo.

    It's my personal all time favorite release by the band.

  • That's a real shame. I was going to wade in and do a thread on Invisible Touch but thought better of it, knowing the likelihood of negative posts :(

    I don't think you should hold back on your IT thread. You might find more people weigh in with positive comments than you'd expect. I only really dislike one track on it so I'd be pretty upbeat.


    When I joined the board and saw there weren't dedicated album threads other than your one on CAS I thought it'd be good to get some going. The responses were variable and then the '3 tracks' threads started up and gained traction so it seemed people responded better to that format. Perhaps they prefer focusing on specific track choices rather than a more general wide-ranging discussion.


    Now the two sets of threads have overlapped it seems to me to be duplication but never mind. But anyway that's why I decided to stop setting up general album threads, it seemed daft having both.


    But as I said, nothing stopping you doing a general IT thread and seeing how it goes. I think there's a good basis for it - it was a huge global success and they hit their commercial peak. Suddenly it seemed everyone wanted a piece of Genesis, to own that album, buy the singles, watch the videos and go to a Genesis gig. But what do we actually think of the album itself? Commercial sell-out, or still the same Genesis but just in a different form?


    Pretty good discussion to be had there, I reckon.


    And of course, if anyone wishes to continue with general threads for Duke onwards they're free to do so (it just won't be me!)

    Abandon all reason

  • It's my personal all time favorite release by the band.

    Agree with Mark. I can still listen to it 45 years later and hear subtleties that I missed. I've played that entire album live and it is a beast (I've dissected every 4/8-string bass parts, 12-string parts and Taurus parts). It is so incredibly dense and emotional.... It was tough for them to play live (I saw the '77 tour) for a number of reasons including the lack of an acoustic piano, the huge number of overdubs (OFTV in particular), etc. But I remember listening to that record and thinking that it stacked up favorably against any Gabriel-era album.

  • Agree with Mark. I can still listen to it 45 years later and hear subtleties that I missed. I've played that entire album live and it is a beast (I've dissected every 4/8-string bass parts, 12-string parts and Taurus parts). It is so incredibly dense and emotional.... It was tough for them to play live (I saw the '77 tour) for a number of reasons including the lack of an acoustic piano, the huge number of overdubs (OFTV in particular), etc. But I remember listening to that record and thinking that it stacked up favorably against any Gabriel-era album.

    If not for “Your Own Special Way” it would rank right up there with SEBTP and ATOTT for me. It’s easy to see why Tony loves it so much (though it is interesting to me that Mike ranks it below ATOTT).

  • If not for “Your Own Special Way” it would rank right up there with SEBTP and ATOTT for me. It’s easy to see why Tony loves it so much (though it is interesting to me that Mike ranks it below ATOTT).

    Mike is a "rocker", don't forget. He wrote Squonk (or co-wrote) as an ode to "Kashmir" which he heard while driving with Tony in 1975. Banks is the romantic one so no surprise in regard to his love of W&W. I actually don't mind YOSW though I realize that it was the first of the pop love songs. Inside and Out would have been better but it may not have been written (or fully finished) that early on.

  • W&W is my favourite album. Without this one I probably would not have become a fan. It's the first Genesis album I listened to. The intro of Eleventh Earl of Mar seemed so special to my ears, I couldn't believe it. Then, there is One For The Vine, so by this point, I couldn't stop listening.

    In my head it's weirdly associated with the French theatre release of Toy Story 2, probably because the two events happened at the same time (I discovered W&W and Genesis in January or February 2000, and went to the cinema with my mother to see TS2 in February or March 2000).

    I know it seems completely random, but even today when I listen to the album, I still have some pictures of the film and of the cinema theatre (which has since been destroyed...) in my head.

  • I've never understood why YOSW is considered a "pop love song." The words are not typical love song lyrics, and the music really isn't all that poppy. I always thought it fit well with the overall mood of W&W.

    FOR MAXIMUM EFFECT THIS TRACK SHOULD BE LISTENED TO AS LOUDLY AS POSSIBLE WITH AS MUCH TREBLE AND BASS AS YOUR SYSTEM CAN MUSTER. NOT TO BE PLAYED TO PEOPLE WITH HEART CONDITIONS OR THOSE IN A SEVERELY HALLUCOGENIC STATE OF MIND.

  • I've never understood why YOSW is considered a "pop love song." The words are not typical love song lyrics, and the music really isn't all that poppy. I always thought it fit well with the overall mood of W&W.

    Me too. Actually, I even understand why they left out Inside and Out. The overall sound of the song is completely different from the rest of the album. To me it belongs more to ATOTT...

  • Me too. Actually, I even understand why they left out Inside and Out. The overall sound of the song is completely different from the rest of the album. To me it belongs more to ATOTT...

    A bit of context... Mike wrote it right after the got married in the late summer of '76 for his wife Angie so yes, it is a love song. I actually think it's cool that Banks used a Fender Rhodes on that song, which he never did, I believe, either before or after. And yes, I agree reading Inside and Out; it does have that ATOTT vibe to it.

  • YOSW is a strong song. Fits well in the context of the album .IAO is OK in itself but I think is quite weak. The verses seem a bit weedy and the instrumental is nowhere as good as most of the Genesis instrumental sections and certainly.not as good as any of the instrument parts on W&W so it would have been a pointless inclusion. I prefer both Pigeons and MOTD to it. In think putting on an EP was the right thing to do. Well that just my opinion. Oh and Genesis's !

  • In think putting on an EP was the right thing to do. Well that just my opinion. Oh and Genesis's !

    Well not all of them, as Hackett has made clear.


    I love I&O and think it's one of the best things they ever did. It does have a different feel compared to the album material but that's one of its strengths in my view. The dynamics of the instrumental are very different from usual Genesis, and it's their oddities that so often appeal to me as is the case with this one. The run-out section when the drums go to half-tempo with Hackett's big ringing discords is wonderful - a great antidote to all the lush swirly Genesis-y stuff on the album. Maybe it's as well it ended up on the EP as it's too good for the album.

    Abandon all reason

  • Well not all of them, as Hackett has made clear.


    I love I&O and think it's one of the best things they ever did. It does have a different feel compared to the album material but that's one of its strengths in my view. The dynamics of the instrumental are very different from usual Genesis, and it's their oddities that so often appeal to me as is the case with this one. The run-out section when the drums go to half-tempo with Hackett's big ringing discords is wonderful - a great antidote to all the lush swirly Genesis-y stuff on the album. Maybe it's as well it ended up on the EP as it's too good for the album.

    Hackett wanted Please Don't Touch on W&W; which they did rehearse. I think that song would have been awesome to include as the rest of the band would have put its touch on it (it would have sounded different from what ended up on Hackett's second solo album). It certainly is/was as strong as Wot Gorilla, for example.

  • Hackett wanted Please Don't Touch on W&W; which they did rehearse.

    I never noticed this until someone else pointed it out, but the first part of "Unquiet Slumbers for the Sleepers" actually quotes PDT.

    FOR MAXIMUM EFFECT THIS TRACK SHOULD BE LISTENED TO AS LOUDLY AS POSSIBLE WITH AS MUCH TREBLE AND BASS AS YOUR SYSTEM CAN MUSTER. NOT TO BE PLAYED TO PEOPLE WITH HEART CONDITIONS OR THOSE IN A SEVERELY HALLUCOGENIC STATE OF MIND.